Grahams81-Leon 4wd, Big Turbo - Back in the saddle :-)

[grahams81]

Thanks for all the comments guys, much appreciated

Small Update

Well it's been a while since my last update...sorry guys.
Working away every week and getting more responsibilities with work is meaning some weeks i'm only getting back for 1 night... obviously this is meaning i'm spending what little time i have off with the family and not with the project.

Anyways now I'm off over Christmas so hopefully i'll get a little progress done.

Here are some pics i've took along the way when i've managed to sneak a few hours here and there -

So a while back i bought an Audi S3 propshaft from Tim (Ronin225) on here, i already had an Audi TT one but i read they were too short so i bought the S3 one -

Decided to start putting it in so started off with the short end, fitted it to the transfer box with new bolts of course

I supported the end of the propshaft with an axle stand to stop the weight hanging on the box / coupling.

I then connected the long part to the diff end..... but when i lifted it up i couldn't get the cv joint connected.... so took it back off and joined the cv together but then couldn't get the propshaft onto the diff as it was too long to fit over the stub shaft of the flange.
So i faffed about for a while and then decided to make things easier i would disconnect the doggone mount from the subframe to give me a few more millimetres.
That wasn't quite enough so i decided to remove the engine mounts to body bolts and slide the engine / transmission towards the front of the car.

Once i'd moved the engine a bit i lifted the propshaft up over the stub shaft and then moved the engine back into position and checked that there was still a little end float in the shaft (to check it wasn't bottomed out and the prop wasn't under compression)

Prop fitted and held up in the middle with an axle stand -

Next up i decided while i had the bolts out to replace the mounts, as when i fitted the engine i managed to strip the threads in the engine / gearbox mounting brackets, i had a spare one for the engine side already but Tim gave me one for gearbox side which was nice of him
So i cleaned the brackets up and prepared for fitting them.

Placed a crawler under the engine and took the weight with a trolley jack, then removed the engine mount / engine bracket etc -

All refitted -

Then started off on the gearbox side -

All done and bolted back up -

Next job was to get the centre bearing mounts fitted. When i bought the Audi S3 floorpan the guys cut the centre bearing mounts out for me. So i started by removing the burrs from the mounts and then fitted it to the centre bearing..... i was nicely surprised that the bends / lines / creases were in exactly the same place as the S3 shell.
You can see in the below picture how the mounts line up exactly with the lines in the tunnel -

I was thinking about leaving the mounts connected to the original s3 tunnel parts and just welding them to the leon tunnel.... but the way the tunnel tapers up smaller at the top the mounts would have been approx 1.5-2.0mm lower than OEM.
So i decided to remove the mounts from the s3 tunnel parts and mount them in the leon tunnel. I cut the welds off and dressed the mounts up.

I then found that the tunnel on the leon seems to be made of thinner metal than the S3 so i decided to make a nice thick steel plate that would spread the load a bit better.
I then drilled both sides of the mounts and drilled and tapped the thick plate to suit.

Once i was happy with the position of the centre bearing i marked the tunnel up and drilled it.

All bolted up

Shot of the plate on the inside -

As you can see the screws are protruding, i will be fitting nuts to stop any chance of the screws coming out, and i'll probably tack weld the plates into position eventually.

I still had an hours grace so i decided to fit the transfer box to engine brace bracket -

For those who don't know it fits on here -

All fitted -

So thats it for now, not too interesting but its progress non the less.

Thanks as always for reading and any comments.

 

[Ronin225]

No problems mate as you know ive got lots of bits lying around
Was nice to put a face to a name and have a chin wag

 

[adam cupra 20vt]

Great work as always mate, one of the best build threads I've seen

 

[grahams81]

No problems mate as you know ive got lots of bits lying around
Was nice to put a face to a name and have a chin wag

Yeh it was nice to meet up Tim, and thanks again for the bits.... i'll be in-touch in a bit with my next shopping list lol

Great work as always mate, one of the best build threads I've seen

Thanks Adam, appreciate it love your sig photo by the way... looks awesome

Update

After putting in the propshaft i decided to try and finish off the rest of the drivetrain... the only thing that's left to go in are the drive shafts.

So i dug out the rear driveshafts, they were quite heavily corroded from when i left the TT back-end laid out in the rain -

I decided because i'm lazy.... and there's no play in the cv joints and the boots are in good condition to not touch them and risk damaging the boots etc that i'd leave the driveshafts intact.
I just used a file / emery cloth to remove the corrosion and get down to good metal, then gave them a dose of wire brushing.
Then gave them a coat of POR15, this is with just one coat... still got to give them a second -

While the paint was drying i got the front driveshafts out. These driveshafts are off a Audi TT 3.2 V6 so are quite beefy.
They came as part of the complete front end i bought (subframe / hubs / steering rack etc)

Unfortunately the inner cv joint boot was dislodged on both sides so i decided to investigate.
What i found was the metal flange that the boot joins to was bent.. the same on both sides.
I'm guessing that someone has bent the hubs down at some point trying to remove the shockers.

So they had to come apart to be sorted, first job is to tap the inner metal cover off the inner CV joint, i just used a large flat blade screwdriver to tap the lip of the cover and it popped of quite easily -

Shot of the inside of the joint, the next job is to remove the circlip to remove the inner cv joint from the driveshaft -

All removed

So i had a selection of driveshafts and one of the old non quattro ones, so i stripped them all down to get the best selection of parts available to make 2 good shafts.

Bomb site -

So next up i cleaned everything up in preparation for rebuilding them. I managed to use a inner cv joint from my original shafts to replace the damaged metal cover, but the other driveshaft i had it was slightly different so i decided to repair the other bent cover.

Shot of the damage -

After a bit of hammering / bending and shaping, i then filed off a few sharp edges off it -

I managed to get some CV grease from Halfords -

Weighed it on some scales 120g, although it does look like dog sh*t -

I then put some masking tape on the splines (to protect the cv boot) and slid the old boot back on. Then i packed the boot side of the joint with grease and slid it on the driveshaft. Gave it a tap to ensure it was home then refitted the circlip -

I then put the remaining grease on the outside of the joint and popped the inner cover back on - no photo's as i was covered in grease and didn't fancy getting my phone dirty.
I then used the original boot clips (i used a flat blade screwdriver bit and a pair of water pump pliers to get it re-tensioned)

All done

Same again on the drivers side -

Feeling quite happy that id done them i decided to fit the drivers side shaft (its the easiest to get to in my garage)

Cleaned the bolts / plates up... and cleaned the driveshaft splines out, then applied a little anti-sieze to the splines & bolt threads.

To get the shaft in i removed the 3 lower ball joint nuts and pushed the wishbone down out of the way, then put the shaft in spline end first.

Next i nipped the bolts up for the driveshaft to gearbox flange, then put the big bolt into the end of the drive shaft (again lubricated the threads and head with anti seize) and pulled it up a little.
I then tightened the driveshaft bolts to 70Nm (i used the large driveshaft end bolt to stop the shaft from turning while i tightened up the flange bolts)

Next fitted the driveshaft cover to the transfer box bolts -

As you can see the oil drain connection on the sump seems to be pointing straight at the driveshaft, so i may have to remove the sump and do some cutting and shutting.
It may work with an angle fitting in... i look into it in more detail later on.

Gonna try and get the second coat of paint on the rear driveshafts next and then get them installed along with the passenger side front one.

Thanks for reading as always,

Graham.

 

[grahams81]

I pulled the car away from the wall today so i could get access to fit the driver side driveshaft, then i replaced the track rod end... as always cleaned up the threads... applied unit seize and replaced the lock nut.

Tomorrows job is to have a tidy up and then start replacing brake lines.

 

[Ronin225]

Its getting closer now
Also on a side note ive been looking into brake setups and making a good one from bits of kits and think ive come up with a good option without spending stupid money, i'll PM you the details shortly

 

[staceys3]

Looking good graham it's going to be cleaner and better assembled car than they leave VAGs assembly line

Can't wait to see how the EFR goes on your build

 

[Cupra_collins]

Great build graham it's giving so many ideas plus having Tim ronin225 as my next door neighbour I could get in a lot of trouble with the wife.

 

[Jonathan.ryall1]

Can't w8 to see this finished its going to be an awesome tool. Just have to watch with that turbo you will be sucking up small animals and children with that

 

[grahams81]

Its getting closer now
Also on a side note ive been looking into brake setups and making a good one from bits of kits and think ive come up with a good option without spending stupid money, i'll PM you the details shortly

Thanks Tim, i'll be in touch

Looking good graham it's going to be cleaner and better assembled car than they leave VAGs assembly line

Can't wait to see how the EFR goes on your build

Cheers Stacey, i've also been following your build on vortex... i'm also looking forward to messing around with the turbo

Great build graham it's giving so many ideas plus having Tim ronin225 as my next door neighbour I could get in a lot of trouble with the wife.

Thanks Pall, it'd be dangerous living close to Tim, you'll have access to loads of goodies but it may end in tears

Can't w8 to see this finished its going to be an awesome tool. Just have to watch with that turbo you will be sucking up small animals and children with that

Lol cheers buddy.

Little Update

After having a good clean up after rebuilding the driveshafts i put another coat of paint on the rear shafts.... while that was drying i got out the stuff to start on the brake lines.

A while ago i ordered up some 4.75mm brake pipe to replace the corroded front brake lines and of course re-pipe the rear brakes as the joining points are different due to the 4wd conversion.
I searched for aluminium brake pipe to match the OEM stuff but couldn't find it anywhere. So i went for Copper / Nickel pipe (Kunifer) in the end - it's a little harder to work with than pure copper but doesn't work harden and fail like pure copper does.

I also got a brake pipe flaring tool from eBay, so i tested it....very impressed with the tool, really easy to use and forms a nice DIN flare. The only thing i found was the clamp for the pipe was a little aggressive, if you tightened the two clamping bolts fully (like the instructions tell you) then it actually distorts the pipe. I did a few further test runs and varied the amount of force on the clamping screws until i found a happy amount that didn't distort the pipe.

Test Flares -

I removed the passenger side pipe and decided to start on that side, well that was a bit of a silly thing to do as it's the shortest pipe so all the bends need to be very accurate.

Anyways i managed to get it looking ok -

I used an old pipe end to locate it onto the chassis clip just until i get new brake pipes for it.

Next up i removed the drivers side pipe, used the original one as a template and started bending the pipe with some small handheld bending pliers.

Getting there

All done, used the original nuts on the ABS end but put new nuts on the flexi end -

Quite enjoyed doing the brake pipes, going to replace the rears next time i get in the garage.

Thanks for reading,

Graham.

 

[seatcupramad23]

epic , fire up the quattro

 

[grahams81]

epic , fire up the quattro

Brake Update

Well unfortunately progress has been a little slow lately, i can't afford to spend anything on the project at the moment.... saving hard to pay to go for a friends wedding (actually costing more than i spent on my own wedding)

So i've been trying to keep the project progressing without spending anything, i've been beavering away doing little jobs.

Last update i started replacing the front brake lines. Next i did the rears, i found the fronts quite enjoyable, but the backs were a pain.

I started off by unwinding the room and routing it up from under the rear of the car loosely, then i bent the ABS end and worked front to back.

Once i was finished with the front end i realised i made a bit of a mistake leaving it so long to install the brake pipes..... i should have done the pipes before i installed the fuel tank & diff assembly. The standard brake pipes get sandwiched in place above the petrol tank.....Oh well i wasn't about to strip half the car down to start again.

So one rear brake pipe done at the abs end -

The passenger side rear end was relatively easy, i just took the pipe up and bent it into the space in-between the tank and chassis. I then used the OEM brake pipe support / cushioning clip on pieces to ensure the pipe was supported nicely and can't touch / vibrate against anything.

I flared the end of the pipe and started off on the last one, the drivers side -

The drivers side pipe was difficult to make as the brake pipes run down the passenger side of the car then they normally run across above the fuel tank and then come down the chassis leg, obviously i couldn't do that with the tank in situ so i bent the pipe to run down between the tank and chassis then up and over the propshaft. I drilled and tapped a few pipe clamps on the way to keep everything nice and tight.
I also dropped a bollock - i routed the brake pipes and forgot about the hand brake cables so ended up having to re-install them and re-working the brake lines to avoid them.... never mind lol.
It was really hard to photograph but here are a few sh*tty ones i got laid on my back -

Passenger side -

Picture showing the OEM pipe support / cushioning clips -

Middle section bend round to clear petrol tank straps and propshaft, secured with clips i installed -

Drivers side -

Don't worry about the fuel lines they'll be getting pulled out from there as i'll be routing everything into the spare wheel well for a surge tank set-up.

Thats it for now folks

 

[jonnyhugill]

This thread at first glance appears very impressive. Im looking forward to some bed time reading now

 

[Welsh]

Iv just spent my entire Friday evening drooling over this lol read every page.. What a build

 

[grahams81]

This thread at first glance appears very impressive. Im looking forward to some bed time reading now

Iv just spent my entire Friday evening drooling over this lol read every page.. What a build ��

Thanks Guys, i appreciate the comments

Update time - Well overdue.....

Last year i set a timescale in my head for completion - it was April this year, that was to enable me to take the car to the ring for my mates stag do, well as it happens i'll never make the timescale..... but everyones now going to the Isle of Man for a p*ss-up, lucky escape.

I have been doing bits and pieces on the car in the background but i have been waiting to get a decent amount to show to bother putting an update together.

I decided a while ago to try and re-design the turbo manifold, the main reason was the proximity of the manifold to the valve cover / coil packs and having to re-route redesign lots of parts of the cooling system.
The manifold i designed was very equal length but it was quite long.... so i decided the next design would be more simple with shorter header lengths.

I tried every means possible to fit the turbo between the engine and bulk head but without cutting away the rain tray and possibly re-locating the ECU it wasn't meant to be..... it could have fitted if it wasn't an internal wastegate model.... but the angle makes it really difficult to site.

Anyhow, i decided the only place that was practical was where i had the turbo before, but i decided to rotate it so the pipes came into the turbo from the bottom.

I then got the trusty cable ties out and mounted the turbo roughly where i wanted it to sit -

Next i then welded some M6 studding to mount the turbo flange in the correct position -

I then realised due to the proximity of the gear shifter cables it was going to be tricky to bring a traditional merge collector up to the T4 divided flange.

I decided the only way to go was to merge the two sets of pipes together then bring them up to the turbo flange.

I've read loads of articles / books etc on exhaust design theory.... there is not so much available on turbo manifold design, most books are aimed at building headers for American V8's etc.
From what i found most say don't build the runners too big as all you do is loose spool time so affect low down torque.

As a good rule of thumb most say to keep the ID of the headers the same size as the exhaust ports, and the ID of the 1.25" matches the exhaust port size of the Large port AGU head perfectly.
For the headers / runners i decided to stick with the 1.25" SCH 10 S weld fittings, but merging them together i was a little unsure on what size to then make them..... too big and the gases are going to loose velocity and poor spool, too small and maybe choke the engine at higher RPM.
I measured the area of each port of the turbo flange, and calculated the area - had to do some hard sum's to work it out minus the radiuses at the corners of the ports....

I ended up working it out at 1566 mm2

The Area of the ID of 1.25" SCH10 pipe is 1053 mm2
The Area of the ID of 1.50" SCH10 pipe is 1433 mm2
The Area of the ID of 2.00" SCH10 pipe is 2355 mm2

The 2.0" pipe is far too large for merging two 1.25" pipes together and the 1.5" is a tad small, and nobody makes a 1.75" SCH10 pipe..... so i had to improvise and make my own.



I decided to use a 1.5" bend and cut it up the middle, then prise it open -

I then cut another bend up to get a piece of bend material to fill in the gap.

Then after a bit of grinding / filing i tacked the infill piece in -

I then put the flange back onto the car and worked out a route for the bends and marked and cut the bend -

I then hammered / bent the end of the pipe to suit the square flange and tacked it onto the flange -

Next i made another 90 degree bend, repeating the earlier steps.... and then did the same with a 45 degree bend.
After a lot of measuring up and cutting i tacked them onto the flange and tacked the two merge collectors on that i had previously cut and had used on the flange -

I then tried it onto the engine to check for clearances etc...

I then made a few changes and squared the ends off on the merge's and the bends.... tacked back together -

Next job was trying to plan out the pipe runs, started off pairing Cylinder 2 & 3 into the closest pipe -

I then piped up cylinder 1 -

And it was very apparent that the runs for cylinder 1 & 4 were quite different lengths, i knew by making the under piped manifold that the pipes would be very difficult if not impossible to get equal, and to be honest the more i read the more i'm convinced that although its ideal to try and make them equal it's better to make it shorter than loads of unnecessary bends to try and get it the same length.

As this was the first version i decided to try it on the car and see how it fitted.... well it fitted ok but it wouldn't leave a massive amount of room for the downpipe.

So today i decided to scrap the design and bring Cylinder 1 & 4 to the other pipe as it would balance the lengths more equally and also give more room for the down pipe.

Cylinder 1 & 4 done

Then tried it on to check fitment -

All good.... now 2's turn -

Last one -

It's all just tacked to check for clearances etc, once i'm happy i'll recut all the angles to get rid of all the gaps.

Next up trial fit, fits nice and much more room for a downpipe -

Next i HAD to put the turbo on to see how it looked -

Next up i'll start recutting the pipes and getting all the angles correct before i chamfer them all.... then it's time to start welding

 

[dgjdrummer]

That looks incredible and like an amazing amount of fab time and trial fitting!

I recently watched a series of Might Car Mods videos called Gramps 11 second car, where they basically put a 3.5l Subaru Legacy engine in to a '95 Subaru estate and then use a Garrett BT and make a custom exhaust.

The guy doing the pipe design is nicknamed "Turbo Yoda" and states the length of pipes on the headers isn't so important, it's having good pressure before the turbo by using smaller diameter pipes to build boost and then as little pressure as possible after the turbo. It's worth a watch just to see how he goes about fabricating the manifold side and exhaust side, although they are using a 6 cylinder boxer engine.

It's in 10 parts and they range from 15 minutes to over an hour but the main work is in the first few episodes.

I love watching your work, wish I had the time/patience/money to do something like this.

 

[Welsh]

That looks incredible and like an amazing amount of fab time and trial fitting!

I recently watched a series of Might Car Mods videos called Gramps 11 second car, where they basically put a 3.5l Subaru Legacy engine in to a '95 Subaru estate and then use a Garrett BT and make a custom exhaust.

The guy doing the pipe design is nicknamed "Turbo Yoda" and states the length of pipes on the headers isn't so important, it's having good pressure before the turbo by using smaller diameter pipes to build boost and then as little pressure as possible after the turbo. It's worth a watch just to see how he goes about fabricating the manifold side and exhaust side, although they are using a 6 cylinder boxer engine.

It's in 10 parts and they range from 15 minutes to over an hour but the main work is in the first few episodes.

I love watching your work, wish I had the time/patience/money to do something like this.

Is this on TV or YouTube? If you tube can I have a link?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Welsh]

Thanks Guys, i appreciate the comments



Update time - Well overdue.....



Last year i set a timescale in my head for completion - it was April this year, that was to enable me to take the car to the ring for my mates stag do, well as it happens i'll never make the timescale..... but everyones now going to the Isle of Man for a p*ss-up, lucky escape.



I have been doing bits and pieces on the car in the background but i have been waiting to get a decent amount to show to bother putting an update together.



I decided a while ago to try and re-design the turbo manifold, the main reason was the proximity of the manifold to the valve cover / coil packs and having to re-route redesign lots of parts of the cooling system.

The manifold i designed was very equal length but it was quite long.... so i decided the next design would be more simple with shorter header lengths.



I tried every means possible to fit the turbo between the engine and bulk head but without cutting away the rain tray and possibly re-locating the ECU it wasn't meant to be..... it could have fitted if it wasn't an internal wastegate model.... but the angle makes it really difficult to site.



Anyhow, i decided the only place that was practical was where i had the turbo before, but i decided to rotate it so the pipes came into the turbo from the bottom.



I then got the trusty cable ties out and mounted the turbo roughly where i wanted it to sit -

Next i then welded some M6 studding to mount the turbo flange in the correct position -

I then realised due to the proximity of the gear shifter cables it was going to be tricky to bring a traditional merge collector up to the T4 divided flange.



I decided the only way to go was to merge the two sets of pipes together then bring them up to the turbo flange.



I've read loads of articles / books etc on exhaust design theory.... there is not so much available on turbo manifold design, most books are aimed at building headers for American V8's etc.

From what i found most say don't build the runners too big as all you do is loose spool time so affect low down torque.



As a good rule of thumb most say to keep the ID of the headers the same size as the exhaust ports, and the ID of the 1.25" matches the exhaust port size of the Large port AGU head perfectly.

For the headers / runners i decided to stick with the 1.25" SCH 10 S weld fittings, but merging them together i was a little unsure on what size to then make them..... too big and the gases are going to loose velocity and poor spool, too small and maybe choke the engine at higher RPM.

I measured the area of each port of the turbo flange, and calculated the area - had to do some hard sum's to work it out minus the radiuses at the corners of the ports....



I ended up working it out at 1566 mm2



The Area of the ID of 1.25" SCH10 pipe is 1053 mm2

The Area of the ID of 1.50" SCH10 pipe is 1433 mm2

The Area of the ID of 2.00" SCH10 pipe is 2355 mm2



The 2.0" pipe is far too large for merging two 1.25" pipes together and the 1.5" is a tad small, and nobody makes a 1.75" SCH10 pipe..... so i had to improvise and make my own.







I decided to use a 1.5" bend and cut it up the middle, then prise it open -

I then cut another bend up to get a piece of bend material to fill in the gap.

Then after a bit of grinding / filing i tacked the infill piece in -

I then put the flange back onto the car and worked out a route for the bends and marked and cut the bend -

I then hammered / bent the end of the pipe to suit the square flange and tacked it onto the flange -

Next i made another 90 degree bend, repeating the earlier steps.... and then did the same with a 45 degree bend.

After a lot of measuring up and cutting i tacked them onto the flange and tacked the two merge collectors on that i had previously cut and had used on the flange -

I then tried it onto the engine to check for clearances etc...

I then made a few changes and squared the ends off on the merge's and the bends.... tacked back together -

Next job was trying to plan out the pipe runs, started off pairing Cylinder 2 & 3 into the closest pipe -

I then piped up cylinder 1 -

And it was very apparent that the runs for cylinder 1 & 4 were quite different lengths, i knew by making the under piped manifold that the pipes would be very difficult if not impossible to get equal, and to be honest the more i read the more i'm convinced that although its ideal to try and make them equal it's better to make it shorter than loads of unnecessary bends to try and get it the same length.



As this was the first version i decided to try it on the car and see how it fitted.... well it fitted ok but it wouldn't leave a massive amount of room for the downpipe.



So today i decided to scrap the design and bring Cylinder 1 & 4 to the other pipe as it would balance the lengths more equally and also give more room for the down pipe.



Cylinder 1 & 4 done

Then tried it on to check fitment -

All good.... now 2's turn -

Last one -

It's all just tacked to check for clearances etc, once i'm happy i'll recut all the angles to get rid of all the gaps.

Next up trial fit, fits nice and much more room for a downpipe -

Next i HAD to put the turbo on to see how it looked -

Next up i'll start recutting the pipes and getting all the angles correct before i chamfer them all.... then it's time to start welding

Wow truly amazing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dgjdrummer]

Is this on TV or YouTube? If you tube can I have a link?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's on YouTube mate, first episode below:

http://youtu.be/2A47LYAcakg

There's a bit of mucking about and ripping on Honda's, and you can pretty much skip the opening couple of minutes on each episode as it's just the guys sitting in old man suits talking bollocks but the build is pretty good.

 

[J.B.]

Looking good. Do you got enough space for a downpipe?