SCN Badger 5 UK ROLLING ROAD meet for all ko4 2.0 tfsi's feb 2014********

[IbizaAlex]

I tend to try boost 9, then drop to 8 to see what logs better and feels better. Some cars 9 is best, but most of them are smoother with more top end on boost 8.

What is your requested vs actual Bill? Its like having thr car on 7 makes it hit a limit then back off.

 

[big eck]

Good to see some comparisons on the Revo/APR debate.

I was in 2 minds whether to swap lol APR from my Revo software as everyone says the APR software is so much better. Looking at the graphs that's obviously not the case. Think I'll just stay put now.

 

[ibizacupra]

I tend to try boost 9, then drop to 8 to see what logs better and feels better. Some cars 9 is best, but most of them are smoother with more top end on boost 8.

What is your requested vs actual Bill? Its like having thr car on 7 makes it hit a limit then back off.

logs from sat on b8 below, and dyno of b7 vs b8 where extra boost achieved nothing

Group A:	'020				Group B:	'115				Group C:	'118			
	Cylinder 1 Ignition	Cylinder 2 Ignition	Cylinder 3 Ignition	Cylinder 4 Ignition		Engine Speed	Engine Load	Boost Pressure	Boost Pressure		Engine Speed	Intake Air	Wastegate (N75)	Boost Pressure
TIME	Angle Delay	Angle Delay	Angle Delay	Angle Delay	TIME			(specified)	(actual)	TIME		Temperature	Duty Cycle	(actual)
STAMP	°KW	°KW	°KW	°KW	STAMP	 /min	 %	 mbar	 mbar	STAMP	 /min	°C	 %	 mbar
18.03	0	0	0	0	17.79	1560	68.4	1160	1100	17.91	1600	25	52.9	1110
18.42	0	0	0	0	18.16	1600	84.2	1490	1140	18.3	1600	25	99.6	1160
18.81	0	0	0	0	18.55	1600	90.2	1500	1200	18.67	1600	25	99.6	1220
19.19	0	0	0	0	18.94	1600	93.2	1510	1260	19.06	1600	25	99.6	1280
19.57	0	0	0	0	19.33	1680	98.5	1520	1310	19.45	1720	25	99.6	1330
19.97	0	0	0	0	19.7	1840	100.8	1610	1370	19.84	1920	24	98	1390
20.36	0	0	0	0	20.09	2000	106	1760	1430	20.21	2040	24	99.6	1450
20.73	-3	0	0	0	20.49	2160	115.8	2020	1520	20.61	2200	24	99.6	1550
21.12	-3	-3	-3	-3	20.88	2360	128.6	2180	1650	21	2400	24	99.6	1710
21.51	-3	-6	-3	-3	21.25	2520	145.9	2260	1860	21.39	2560	24	99.6	1970
21.9	-3	-6	-3	-3	21.64	2680	170.7	2300	2170	21.76	2760	24	65.1	2270
22.28	-3	-6	-3	-3	22.03	2880	191.7	2330	2440	22.15	2960	24	64.3	2500
22.66	-3	-6	-3	-3	22.42	3080	191.7	2340	2540	22.54	3120	24	58.8	2480
23.06	-3	-6	-3	-3	22.79	3240	191.7	2340	2380	22.93	3280	24	57.6	2340
23.45	-2.3	-6	-3	-3	23.18	3360	179.7	2330	2360	23.31	3440	23	57.3	2350
23.82	-2.3	-5.3	-2.3	-2.3	23.57	3560	191.7	2330	2360	23.7	3560	23	57.3	2310
24.21	-2.3	-5.3	-2.3	-2.3	23.97	3680	176.7	2340	2320	24.08	3720	23	57.6	2350
24.6	-2.3	-5.3	-2.3	-2.3	24.33	3840	186.5	2350	2320	24.48	3880	22	58.8	2330
25	-2.3	-5.3	-2.3	-2.3	24.73	4000	191.7	2380	2360	24.85	4040	22	59.6	2350
25.36	-2.3	-5.3	-2.3	-2.3	25.12	4160	186.5	2410	2400	25.24	4200	22	60.4	2410
25.76	-2.3	-5.3	-2.3	-2.3	25.51	4320	190.2	2430	2400	25.63	4360	22	61.6	2400
26.14	-1.5	-5.3	-2.3	-2.3	25.88	4440	191	2450	2410	26.03	4520	22	63.9	2420
26.54	-1.5	-4.5	-1.5	-1.5	26.27	4600	191.7	2450	2440	26.4	4680	22	65.1	2440
26.91	-1.5	-4.5	-1.5	-1.5	26.66	4760	191.7	2450	2440	26.78	4840	22	66.3	2440
27.3	-1.5	-4.5	-1.5	-1.5	27.05	4920	191.7	2460	2440	27.17	4960	22	67.8	2440
27.69	-1.5	-4.5	-1.5	-1.5	27.43	5080	191.7	2460	2430	27.57	5120	22	69.4	2450
28.08	-1.5	-4.5	-1.5	-1.5	27.82	5240	191.7	2460	2440	27.94	5280	22	71	2430
28.45	-1.5	-4.5	-1.5	-1.5	28.2	5360	191.7	2460	2440	28.33	5400	22	72.2	2440
28.84	-1.5	-4.5	-1.5	-1.5	28.6	5520	191.7	2470	2450	28.72	5560	23	74.1	2470
29.24	-1.5	-4.5	-1.5	-1.5	28.97	5680	191.7	2470	2460	29.11	5720	23	75.3	2440
29.63	-2.3	-4.5	-1.5	-1.5	29.36	5800	190.2	2480	2410	29.48	5880	23	78.4	2400
30	-2.3	-3.8	-0.8	-0.8	29.75	5960	191	2400	2380	29.87	6000	24	81.2	2380
30.39	-2.3	-3.8	-0.8	-0.8	30.14	6120	188	2370	2360	30.26	6160	24	82	2350
30.8	-2.3	-3.8	-0.8	-0.8	30.51	6240	185.7	2380	2360	30.66	6320	24	84.3	2360
31.19	-2.3	-3.8	-0.8	-0.8	30.92	6400	182	2400	2350	31.04	6440	24	85.9	2350
31.56	-2.3	-3.8	-0.8	-0.8	31.31	6520	180.5	2410	2330	31.43	6560	25	88.6	2330
31.95	-2.3	-3.8	-0.8	-0.8	31.7	6680	176.7	2410	2300	31.82	6720	25	92.2	2300
32.34	-2.3	-3.8	-0.8	-0.8	32.07	6800	174.4	2420	2280	32.22	6840	26	94.9	2280
32.73	-2.3	-3.8	-0.8	-0.8	32.46	6920	171.4	2420	2270	32.59	6960	27	94.9	2270
33.11	-1.5	-3.8	-0.8	-0.8	32.86	7080	167.7	2420	2260	32.98	7120	27	94.9	2250
33.5	-1.5	-3.8	-0.8	-0.8	33.25	7160	169.9	2080	2280	33.37	7200	27	63.1	2400
33.89	-1.5	-3.8	-0.8	-0.8	33.62	7280	144.4	1660	2640	33.76	7280	27	14.9	2430
34.27	-1.5	-3	0	0	34.01	7320	100	1230	2070	34.14	7320	25	0.8	1950

Actual boost and torque from the additional boost was nada.... which without a dyno you would not tell from logs alone.

 

[ibizacupra]

Good to see some comparisons on the Revo/APR debate.

I was in 2 minds whether to swap lol APR from my Revo software as everyone says the APR software is so much better. Looking at the graphs that's obviously not the case. Think I'll just stay put now.

Couple of things

Depends on the other hardware also, and supporting mods.. and you cannot forget revo is user adjustable.. and APR is switchable maps, but predetermined by APR for a level of hardware/fuel etc

REVO run less boost from what I saw yesterday, but the torque in mid range from the higher boosting APR cars made more torque. Swings and roundabouts.

egts were'nt logged on anything yesterday, its only modelled, but I would bet all of them hit 999'c calc'd level especially uber boost one of chungys.. Damn that thing glowed!

 

[Evan@APR]

Couple of things

Depends on the other hardware also, and supporting mods.. and you cannot forget revo is user adjustable.. and APR is switchable maps, but predetermined by APR for a level of hardware/fuel etc

REVO run less boost from what I saw yesterday, but the torque in mid range from the higher boosting APR cars made more torque. Swings and roundabouts.

egts were'nt logged on anything yesterday, its only modelled, but I would bet all of them hit 999'c calc'd level especially uber boost one of chungys.. Damn that thing glowed!

Of course they hit 999*C, because as you know that log is based on the ECU model instead of an actual sensor reading lol. You planning on retrofitting an EGT bung into everybody's exhaust manifolds next time to get an actual EGT reading?

Our calibrations (including David's) don't run any leaner than .80 toward redline and you and I both know that's a reasonable mixture, far from lean/dangerous.

Stop trying to scaremonger, Bill--it's not fair

 

[ibizacupra]

This is just for sh1ts and giggles... Comparison of 20v stroker on k04-023 hybrid next to high boosting Cheungys TFSi K04-064

Hold that boost baby, let her rip!
haha

Red = TFSi
Blue = 2ltr 20v

 

[ibizacupra]

Of course they hit 999*C, because as you know that log is based on the ECU model instead of an actual sensor reading lol. You planning on retrofitting an EGT bung into everybody's exhaust manifolds next time to get an actual EGT reading?

Our calibrations (including David's) don't run any leaner than .80 toward redline and you and I both know that's a reasonable mixture, far from lean/dangerous.

Stop trying to scaremonger, Bill--it's not fair

2bar boost not going to result in high egts then Evan? lol
Scaremongering? your words..... not mine.

As I posted, modelled egt's and everyones car would be running into the modelled 999'c.. EVERYONEs

I am well aware with everyones bolt on mods for stage 2+, the models are not going to be representative of reality... change hardware, model not likely as relevant

I have a stroker 2ltr 20v K04-064 WITH an egt sensor currently.. as I do like to measure stuff.. and see "actual" figures. Logging of these will be interesting. I also have a couple of k04 mani's here which will receive an egt bung for my own leon, so I can indeed test and log real life temps on my tfsi.

All the fueling actuals were pretty similar across the board...
I dont believe anyones suggested anything dangerous with the afr's

Fueling is doing more than just "fueling" when pushing these hard, else why run them that rich at all? Leaner would make more power, but we both know we are well into component protection area when pressing these harder. Still all run Leaner than factory choose to on their modest boost levels.

They all surge like a mofo tho on spool.. no matter who's code - Seems a 2283 comp wheel thing

 

[Evan@APR]

Sounds like you have some serious bung-play plans

 

[big eck]

Why is it that your car is more powerful with only stage 2 software than the other Leon's with the stage 2+ software bill. That looks to me that paying for the next level of software is a waste of money.

I know its more than just software but the other cars have all the supporting mods to go with it.

 

[ibizacupra]

Why is it that your car is more powerful with only stage 2 software than the other Leon's with the stage 2+ software bill. That looks to me that paying for the next level of software is a waste of money.

I know its more than just software but the other cars have all the supporting mods to go with it.

have a look at the comparison plots I posted... Headline figures are just that. Headlines.
My mod list is quite large.. more than some others from the day.

Mine is making good power as its sustaining its torque longer in the rev range.. Reasons which support this being lower overall boost, no real lump of mid range boost which although drives up torque also drives up cyl temps, which in turn hurts available timing, which hurts the torque. Drive them hard early and too high, they will fall away sooner is my experience of these, and 1.8t's which I have done more of. I have turned mine up to 9 and made less power but achieved more mid range torque.. I do not like making it hotter than I have to. Thats my preferred way to tune. Not everyone will agree with it.

If you want more of a mid range kick of torque, which is more real world useful, than top end power then the higher mid range boost will achieve that. Its side effect however is heat. Thats the enemy as far as I'm concerned. The two APR cars which ran 3.4 code show the difference. One had wmi, low aits, one had fmic and 20'c higher aits and made less torque. No coincidence there.

Flow and heat management remain key things I like to address personally.

From my own leon, when I have cranked it up I just pumped more heat into it and lost out the top end. In a fwd leon, how much of the torque can you actually turn into tractable power? I know mines lower torque than most from the day but it still does a merry tcs dance in 3rd in the dry.. More torque than tractable is kinda futile to me.

 

[m0rk]

Why is it that your car is more powerful with only stage 2 software than the other Leon's with the stage 2+ software bill. That looks to me that paying for the next level of software is a waste of money.

I know its more than just software but the other cars have all the supporting mods to go with it.

Mileage? Previous owner loving?

 

[ibizacupra]

Sounds like you have some serious bung-play plans

aye, bung tastic.

 

[WeeG]

Wish i wasn't offshore :'( Would have loved to have come down

 

[Bignod00]

Wish i wasn't offshore :'( Would have loved to have come down

Big time buddy......would've been ace to see your top secret TURBO code in action!

 

[big eck]

Mileage? Previous owner loving?

Most of the mileage will be less than 50k so that's out and as for owner loving, I find that the people that can afford to run these cars with these mods then the upkeep of them will be top notch.

 

[Marshall]

I couldn't be arsed to come

1 reason being I knew this would happen lol

What??
Everyone happy with their choice of software.
Nobody's started the Revo/APR war yet, everyone's bigger than that now

 

[Marshall]

I think it's a very honest source of information, nothing to prove for either tuner.
No bragging wacky figures and it shows each software has a similar approach.
Also shows the software is very dependent on each individual car and doesn't perform the same on every car. Also each software has its plus points dependant on customer requirements.

 

[Marshall]

Having had APR and Revo on different cars I stand by my comment, they both have good points.
Don't think there's much between them either way and I'm a happy customer with either.
Yes I went Revo this time not because I disliked APR but the deal I got on Revo swayed it for me and the sps of course.

 

[Bignod00]

I meant to post earlier and say thanks to Bill and the guy's for putting on the day. Was great to be able to finally put faces to (user)names and chat to likeminded people.

I just wish my car would've switched maps to its lower boost one Bill.....that would've been interesting.

Any chance that all the photo's that were taken by your member of staff could get posted up somewhere, looked like he got some good ones!

 

[ibizacupra]

Any chance that all the photo's that were taken by your member of staff could get posted up somewhere, looked like he got some good ones!

I will see where he's at with them.