REVO vs APR (differences in potential gains)

[jammydodgerJW]

http://www.revotechnik.com/type/17038/222/

http://www.goapr.co.uk/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_trans.html



I was all but set on getting a APR for my 2012 leon fr 2.0 tsi when i stumbled across REVO's projected figures for their remap and couldnt believe what i read.

Firstly APR's website is a little off putting as they cant even seem to get the stock performance figures as quoted by VAG correct. They have down as 200bhp which as far as im aware is the output for the pre09 TFSI engine not the 09on TSI engine which is 211bhp. However what would you know, APR's own dyno run produces an output of 216bhp which sounds acceptable given the tolerences from 211bhp. Sorry to babble on but thats my first issue

Second issue is with REVO although theyve managed to do one better than APR and get the stock hp correct according go their rolling road stock hp is 235bhp! Talk about a variance

So heres where im stuck, with 98 ron fuel in the car APR's projected figures after map are 254bhp and REVO's is a massive 275bhp! I only run my car on tesco 99oct momemtum so these are the figures closer to what id hope for

Now my question is will REVO's extra gain over APR be true or do REVO just have an extremely flattering rolling road because if you took their rolling road back to the same figure as APR (-19bhp)and take that away from their projected gain then in theory REVO's remap would be much closer at 256bhp

Apologies in advance for opening a can of warms on this as ive read a couple of posts with arguements etc but im a newbie to all this and just trying to understand which one is most honest and best value.

What initially pushed me to APR was their cool EMCS system but then i was drawn in by REVO's gain

Links to pages are at top of thread

Cheers in advance guys

*what id also like to add guys is why is REVO's dealer network 10 times bigger in the UK than APR? Is is a case of quantity over quality or is it just the simple fact that REVO is much more popular

 

[WeeG]

APR's quoted figures will be for the pre- facelift 200 ps tfsi. The 2.0 tsi in the facelift with IHI turbo has far more gains to be had

 

[jammydodgerJW]

APR's quoted figures will be for the pre- facelift 200 ps tfsi. The 2.0 tsi in the facelift with IHI turbo has far more gains to be had

They cant be for the tfsi though as theirs a different option when searching for the car? You have 2.0 tfsi and 2.0 tsi to chose from..

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[WeeG]

They cant be for the tfsi though as theirs a different option when searching for the car? You have 2.0 tfsi and 2.0 tsi to chose from..

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In that case with the varying standard rolling road quotations I would base it on the registered gain which seems close between the 2 quotes

 

[jammydodgerJW]

In that case with the varying standard rolling road quotations I would base it on the registered gain which seems close between the 2 quotes

Thats what I thought so im back to square one again not knowing which one to go with...

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[WeeG]

Thats what I thought so im back to square one again not knowing which one to go with...

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Totally upto you. Both are good calibrations. I can only give feed back on revo and personally coming from other companies I think it's great

 

[Evan@APR]

I guess we could just put higher gains on the website if that's what impresses you, but facts are facts, our customers' cars put down higher figures than revo's.

In addition to the figures you get EMCS and free upgrades through the stages

Graeme will always argue against this because his car made a little more whp than the apr golf r at a recent dyno day, but that was against a golf r with different drivetrain loss to account for

 

[WeeG]

I guess we could just put higher gains on the website if that's what impresses you, but facts are facts, our customers' cars put down higher figures than revo's.

In addition to the figures you get EMCS and free upgrades through the stages

Lol! Here we go...

 

[LeonCR]

Lol! Here we go...

He is messing with you dude


Why not try the APR software out, I believe they have a 30 day money back guarantee

 

[jammydodgerJW]

I guess we could just put higher gains on the website if that's what impresses you, but facts are facts, our customers' cars put down higher figures than revo's.

In addition to the figures you get EMCS and free upgrades through the stages

Graeme will always argue against this because his car made a little more whp than the apr golf r at a recent dyno day, but that was against a golf r with different drivetrain loss to account for

Hi evan

Thanks for your comments but do you have proof that an apr upgrade car puts down more than a revo?

You never mentioned why you guys cant get the book bhp correct on your site?

And I get that some tuners put down higher numbers hence why im being cautious and asking the experts on here

Jamie

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[jammydodgerJW]

He is messing with you dude


Why not try the APR software out, I believe they have a 30 day money back guarantee

Hi mate

Ye I know but thats the other question why do they have so little dealers nearest one to me is 70 mile revo is only 20

Jamie

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[Evan@APR]

Hi evan

Thanks for your comments but do you have proof that an apr upgrade car puts down more than a revo?

You never mentioned why you guys cant get the book bhp correct on your site?

And I get that some tuners put down higher numbers hence why im being cautious and asking the experts on here

Jamie

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Very simple explanation for this; the OEM doesn't always rate their own figures accurately for marketing or product positioning purposes. We take our own stock measurements and use the same dyno to show consistent gains on stage 1,2,3...

This is how all gains should be measured--stock baseline and modified figures on the same dyno.

If we only used the OEM figures as a baseline and then provided our own figures separately for comparison, that wouldn't be very accurate don't you agree?

As Graeme said, we have a 30 day period after purchasing the software to return it if you're not pleased

And to your enquiry about proof, yes, I have several back-to-back dyno comparisons of revo customers who have switched to apr. I'm on holiday in Paris at the moment but I'll happily provide them when I return.

 

[jammydodgerJW]

Very simple explanation for this; the OEM doesn't always rate their own figures accurately. We make our own stock measurements and use the same dyno to measure stage 1,2,3...

This is how all gains should be measured--same dyno, accurate figures.

If we simply used the stock figures as a baseline and then provided our upgrades for separate comparison, that wouldn't be very accurate don't you agree?

As Graeme said, we have a 30 day period after purchasing the software to return it if you're not pleased

Hi evan

Your not making yourself look good here mate I know you do your own dyno for standard bhp but you also list VAG's numbers right next to it exactly like REVO

I get you work out a baseline then the stages to work out the increases and i agree with you about the procedure.....maybe im being a bit picky but for a reputable tuner not being able to copy across the correct VAG numbers just raises questions for me....

And very true 30day money back gurantee is great but why dont you have many dealers? For me to buy and return would put me £60+ out of pocket for petrol

Jamie

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[Evan@APR]

All companies should be providing their independent data for comparison. Why would I skew my figures to make them look more like OEM? If my dyno reads 180bhp then I'm going to advertise 180bhp. If I rated it at 200bhp then you came to the dyno and did 180bhp, you wouldn't be very happy would you? It's all about consistency.

We have fewer dealers, because the UK is a smaller market and we don't just sign up any garage interested in selling our products. Each has been screened to meet our quality criteria and then trained to specialize in our products as well as possible.

 

[jammydodgerJW]

All companies should be providing their independent data for comparison. Why would I skew my figures to make them look more like OEM? If my dyno reads 180bhp then I'm going to advertise 180bhp. If I rated it at 200bhp then you came to the dyno and did 180bhp, you wouldn't be very happy would you? It's all about consistency.

We have fewer dealers, because the UK is a smaller market and we don't just sign up any garage interested in selling our products. Each has been screened to meet our quality criteria and then trained to specialize in our products as well as possible.

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look at these pictures evan and see if you can understand what i am saying yes you do provide your own independent data but you also claim VAG's own figures! which are incorrect look at REVO to see how it should be.

Theres no arguement for it you need to have it changed simple because it is incorrect data, i trust you when you say you wont fudge the numbers but for pete sake get the illustrated numbers correct first of all

jamie

 

[cheungy]

I have had both REVO and APR on my TFSI Car, both very potent maps and you won't be sorry for choosing either.

But I decided to go with APR because I wanted change and much preferred the Stalk control system over the REVO SPS switch. I can’t give much comment with REVO remap on my car because it was running the old codes and I had a lot of fueling problems and in the past but once I swapped over to APR my problems were long gone...

Can’t say enough about APR from my experience, very good service from HQ

Ps. You won't know unless you try the map!

 

[jammydodgerJW]

I have had both REVO and APR on my TFSI Car, both very potent maps and you won't be sorry for choosing either.

But I decided to go with APR because I wanted change and much preferred the Stalk control system over the REVO SPS switch. I can’t give much comment with REVO remap on my car because it was running the old codes and I had a lot of fueling problems and in the past but once I swapped over to APR my problems were long gone...

Can’t say enough about APR from my experience, very good service from HQ

Ps. You won't know unless you try the map!

cheers mate do either of them fair better with DSG gearbox? because i know revo do a software upgrade for dsg which includes launch control

Jamie

 

[cheungy]

cheers mate do either of them fair better with DSG gearbox? because i know revo do a software upgrade for dsg which includes launch control

Jamie

I can't comment on that sorry no DSG for me heh...

 

[WeeG]

All companies should be providing their independent data for comparison. Why would I skew my figures to make them look more like OEM? If my dyno reads 180bhp then I'm going to advertise 180bhp. If I rated it at 200bhp then you came to the dyno and did 180bhp, you wouldn't be very happy would you? It's all about consistency.

We have fewer dealers, because the UK is a smaller market and we don't just sign up any garage interested in selling our products. Each has been screened to meet our quality criteria and then trained to specialize in our products as well as possible.

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look at these pictures evan and see if you can understand what i am saying yes you do provide your own independent data but you also claim VAG's own figures! which are incorrect look at REVO to see how it should be.

Theres no arguement for it you need to have it changed simple because it is incorrect data, i trust you when you say you wont fudge the numbers but for pete sake get the illustrated numbers correct first of all

jamie

 

[jammydodgerJW]

I can't comment on that sorry no DSG for me heh...

probably better mate with all power youve got would blow gearbox for sure, i had previously a skoda fabia vrs 1.4tsi and because its a dry clutch wouldnt take much over 220bhp before it started having problems lol hence the change