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High Timing pull and rich AFR

Al

Active Member
Aug 29, 2005
7,331
9
Yeah it would remove it. Have you had the car from new? Someone else on here was having weird things happen to his and it turned out to be a dodgy repository on the cylinder head as memory serves. When I get time away from travelling I will try to look for the details.
 

Poverty

Guest
POPOV said:
Looking at my logs we can see that the EGT protection mode kicks in about 2500 RPM, that is when the ECU will push in more fuel to lower temps avoiding damage to the turbo. I have been notified that the ECU should not start to do this before 900C, on my logs about 2500 rpm i am only on about 800C .

Am i logging wrong group for EGT?
Can other factors activate the EGT protection mode as timing pull?
Click to expand...

2500rpm and EGTSs are at 800c????? Thats not right at all, id expect engine to be under heavy load from 4500rpm and above, after having run through one or two gears atleast.

The EGT protection is there to stop things melting.

Id revert back to a bone stock OEM map and do testing from there, back to basics. revo stock mode isnt stock
 

POPOV

Newbie
Jun 25, 2005
581
2
Sweden
Al said:
Yeah it would remove it. Have you had the car from new? Someone else on here was having weird things happen to his and it turned out to be a dodgy repository on the cylinder head as memory serves. When I get time away from travelling I will try to look for the details.
Click to expand...

Got the car after 20000 km. Confirmed before buying it that it never had been to dealer for any serious engine work or similar. Owner before was careful driver, car still had the original tires on when i got it and have lasted at leas another 10000 km so car had been driven nicely i assume.

Let me know more of the cylinder thread if you get any time over to find it.
I will sooner or later do a compression test and leak down test to check that all is good. Car is currently not burning oil at all.
 

POPOV

Newbie
Jun 25, 2005
581
2
Sweden
Poverty said:
2500rpm and EGTSs are at 800c????? Thats not right at all, id expect engine to be under heavy load from 4500rpm and above, after having run through one or two gears atleast.

The EGT protection is there to stop things melting.

Id revert back to a bone stock OEM map and do testing from there, back to basics. revo stock mode isnt stock
Click to expand...

Well, my logs are after running highway and then going a couple of gears. Usually i do one 4th gear full pull then drive one minute or so and stop to check logs. Sometimes i will go for another run but at least driving highway again for a minute or so to cool down things and then going again for full throttle and logging.

Checked the EGT in a nother thread and seems as EGT of 800 C is possible.
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=252182

I will get in touch with REVO to see my option of testing OEM stock.
 

POPOV

Newbie
Jun 25, 2005
581
2
Sweden
Had a chat with Sorensen Performance in Denamrk about the issue i have with my car and got a suggestion that this is due to the LPFP .
Well after logging block 231 it seems obvious that LPFP or fuel filter are messed up.
See my logs below. Can anyone confirm what the difference between specified and actual LPFP value should be.
I think Sorensen Performance indicated actual value should at least be 4 bar at full throttle.

Code: 
	Group A:	002				Group B:	230				Group C:	231		
		Engine Speed	Engine Load	Injection	Intake Air Mass		Rail Pressure	Rail Pressure	Rail Pressure			Pressure	Pressure	Load
	TIME			Timing		TIME	(specified)	(actual)	Difference		TIME			
Marker	STAMP	/min	%	ms	g/s	STAMP	bar	bar	bar		STAMP	bar	bar	%
	0.14	1560	14.3	0.51	4.94	0.27	50	49.98	0.02		0.01	4	3.88	37.6
	0.52	1680	60.9	2.55	32.81	0.66	72.95	74.84	-1.89		0.39	4	3.94	39.6
	0.91	1640	75.2	2.81	28.94	1.03	95.77	98.25	-2.48		0.78	4	3.88	47.1
	1.3	1720	82	3.06	32.69	1.43	103.54	106.92	-3.38		1.18	4	4.19	46.7
	1.69	1800	89.5	3.31	37.39	1.82	105.85	108.29	-2.44		1.55	4	4.39	45.1
	2.07	1880	95.5	3.57	41.22	2.21	107.83	108.88	-1.05		1.94	4	4.41	44.7
	2.45	2000	102.3	3.57	46.47	2.58	109.83	110.41	-0.59		2.33	4	4.37	44.3
	2.85	2120	109.8	3.83	52.67	2.97	113.79	113.83	-0.05		2.72	4	4.29	44.3
	3.24	2240	118	4.08	61.11	3.36	118.32	118.87	-0.55		3.1	4	4.19	45.5
	3.61	2360	128.6	4.34	71.42	3.75	123.77	123.74	0.02		3.48	4	4.12	46.3
	4	2480	142.9	4.84	83.06	4.13	128.49	125.96	2.53		3.88	4	4.05	48.2
	4.39	2640	162.4	5.87	99.81	4.52	129.81	125.98	3.83		4.27	4	4	50.6
	4.78	2880	187.2	7.4	128.42	4.91	129.86	126.79	3.06		4.64	4	3.9	54.9
	5.16	3000	191.7	8.42	146.31	5.3	129.86	127.04	2.82		5.03	4	3.77	62
	5.55	3160	191.7	8.67	167.39	5.68	129.86	127.85	2.01		5.42	4	3.81	63.5
	5.94	3360	191.7	8.42	127.17	6.07	129.86	127.33	2.53		5.82	4	3.87	63.9
	6.33	3520	191.7	7.91	111.61	6.46	129.86	127.74	2.11		6.19	4	3.86	64.3
	6.7	3680	191.7	7.91	192.11	6.85	129.86	128.76	1.09		6.58	4	3.83	65.1
	7.09	3880	191.7	7.65	175.67	7.22	129.86	127.62	2.23		6.97	4	3.77	66.3
	7.49	4040	191.7	7.65	134.33	7.61	129.86	128.26	1.6		7.36	4	3.69	67.1
	7.88	4240	191.7	7.65	189.14	8	129.86	127.91	1.94		7.74	4	3.66	68.6
	8.25	4400	191.7	7.91	188.5	8.39	129.86	126.63	3.22		8.12	4	3.63	70.2
	8.64	4600	191.7	7.65	197.97	8.77	129.86	128.23	1.62		8.52	4	3.53	73.7
	9.03	4720	191.7	7.4	200.08	9.16	129.86	129.72	0.13		8.91	4	3.55	76.1
	9.43	4920	191.7	7.4	207	9.55	129.86	129.63	0.22		9.29	4	3.69	75.7
	9.8	5080	191.7	7.4	210.33	9.94	129.86	129.35	0.51		9.67	4	3.77	76.5
	10.19	5240	191.7	7.14	219.22	10.31	129.86	130.64	-0.78		10.07	4	3.76	78
	10.58	5400	191.7	7.14	223.69	10.71	129.86	128.98	0.87		10.46	4	3.71	81.6
	10.97	5560	191.7	7.14	230	11.1	129.86	129.2	0.66		10.83	4	3.76	84.3
	11.34	5680	191.7	7.4	238.22	11.49	129.86	129.22	0.63		11.22	4	3.95	78
	11.73	5840	191.7	7.4	245.08	11.86	129.86	129.26	0.6		11.61	4	3.74	88.6
	12.13	6000	191.7	7.14	242.72	12.25	129.86	132.76	-2.91		12	4	3.83	90.2
	12.52	6120	191.7	7.14	245.64	12.64	129.96	129.84	0.12		12.38	4	3.99	85.1
	12.89	6240	191.7	7.14	253.75	13.04	129.99	130.85	-0.87		12.77	4	3.96	85.9
	13.29	6360	191.7	7.4	251.78	13.41	129.99	130.68	-0.69		13.16	4	3.87	91.8
 
Last edited:

POPOV

Newbie
Jun 25, 2005
581
2
Sweden
Code: 
020				115	230		
Cylinder 1 Ignition	Cylinder 2 Ignition	Cylinder 3 Ignition	Cylinder 4 Ignition	Engine Speed	Rail Pressure	Rail Pressure	Rail Pressure
Angle Delay	Angle Delay	Angle Delay	Angle Delay		(specified)	(actual)	Difference
°KW	°KW	°KW	°KW	/min	bar	bar	bar
0	0	0	0	1760	52.19	52.31	-0.12
0	0	0	0	1800	72.66	74.03	-1.37
0	0	0	0	1840	98.06	100.48	-2.42
0	0	0	0	1920	107.37	109.71	-2.35
0	0	0	0	2000	110.66	112.44	-1.78
-3	0	0	-3	2120	114.71	116.19	-1.49
-3	-3	-3	-4.5	2240	119.43	120.98	-1.56
-3	-3	-3	-4.5	2360	125.05	126.03	-0.99
-6	-3	-3	-4.5	2520	129.13	126.26	2.86
-6	-6	-3	-4.5	2680	129.13	125.23	3.9
-6	-6	-3	-4.5	2880	129.13	127.45	1.67
-6	-6	-3	-4.5	3080	129.13	126.31	2.81
-6	-6	-3	-3.8	3280	129.13	126.6	2.53
-6	-6	-2.3	-3.8	3440	129.13	128.19	0.94
-5.3	-6	-2.3	-3.8	3600	129.13	127.01	2.11
-5.3	-5.3	-1.5	-3	3760	129.13	129.08	0.04
-4.5	-4.5	-0.8	-2.3	3920	129.13	129.08	0.04
-6.8	-4.5	-0.8	-2.3	4080	129.13	128.76	0.36
-6.8	-3.8	0	-1.5	4280	129.13	128.38	0.74
-6.8	-3.8	0	-1.5	4440	129.13	128.72	0.41
-5.3	-3	0	-0.8	4640	129.13	128.2	0.92
-5.3	-3	0	-0.8	4760	129.13	130.17	-1.04
-4.5	-2.3	0	0	4960	129.13	127.2	1.93
-4.5	-2.3	0	0	5080	129.13	130.49	-1.36
-3.8	-1.5	0	0	5240	129.13	128.1	1.03
-3.8	-1.5	0	0	5400	129.13	129.33	-0.21
-3.8	-0.8	0	0	5560	129.13	129.4	-0.28
-3	-0.8	0	0	5680	129.13	129.15	-0.02
-3	-0.8	0	0	5840	129.13	130.35	-1.23
-2.3	0	0	0	6000	129.13	131.46	-2.34
-2.3	0	0	0	6120	129.13	126.54	2.58
-2.3	0	0	0	6240	129.13	129.5	-0.38
-1.5	0	0	0	6360	129.13	130.11	-0.99
 

sniperftw

Guest
I think this might be what my car is suffering from ? What engine codes do you get?!

Running lean on idle?
 
robdf2

robdf2

Yellow is the best
Feb 21, 2006
3,605
2
location , location
POPOV said:
Had a chat with Sorensen Performance in Denamrk about the issue i have with my car and got a suggestion that this is due to the LPFP .
Well after logging block 231 it seems obvious that LPFP or fuel filter are messed up.
See my logs below. Can anyone confirm what the difference between specified and actual LPFP value should be.
I think Sorensen Performance indicated actual value should at least be 4 bar at full throttle.

Code: 
	Group A:	002				Group B:	230				Group C:	231		
		Engine Speed	Engine Load	Injection	Intake Air Mass		Rail Pressure	Rail Pressure	Rail Pressure			Pressure	Pressure	Load
	TIME			Timing		TIME	(specified)	(actual)	Difference		TIME			
Marker	STAMP	/min	%	ms	g/s	STAMP	bar	bar	bar		STAMP	bar	bar	%
	0.14	1560	14.3	0.51	4.94	0.27	50	49.98	0.02		0.01	4	3.88	37.6
	0.52	1680	60.9	2.55	32.81	0.66	72.95	74.84	-1.89		0.39	4	3.94	39.6
	0.91	1640	75.2	2.81	28.94	1.03	95.77	98.25	-2.48		0.78	4	3.88	47.1
	1.3	1720	82	3.06	32.69	1.43	103.54	106.92	-3.38		1.18	4	4.19	46.7
	1.69	1800	89.5	3.31	37.39	1.82	105.85	108.29	-2.44		1.55	4	4.39	45.1
	2.07	1880	95.5	3.57	41.22	2.21	107.83	108.88	-1.05		1.94	4	4.41	44.7
	2.45	2000	102.3	3.57	46.47	2.58	109.83	110.41	-0.59		2.33	4	4.37	44.3
	2.85	2120	109.8	3.83	52.67	2.97	113.79	113.83	-0.05		2.72	4	4.29	44.3
	3.24	2240	118	4.08	61.11	3.36	118.32	118.87	-0.55		3.1	4	4.19	45.5
	3.61	2360	128.6	4.34	71.42	3.75	123.77	123.74	0.02		3.48	4	4.12	46.3
	4	2480	142.9	4.84	83.06	4.13	128.49	125.96	2.53		3.88	4	4.05	48.2
	4.39	2640	162.4	5.87	99.81	4.52	129.81	125.98	3.83		4.27	4	4	50.6
	4.78	2880	187.2	7.4	128.42	4.91	129.86	126.79	3.06		4.64	4	3.9	54.9
	5.16	3000	191.7	8.42	146.31	5.3	129.86	127.04	2.82		5.03	4	3.77	62
	5.55	3160	191.7	8.67	167.39	5.68	129.86	127.85	2.01		5.42	4	3.81	63.5
	5.94	3360	191.7	8.42	127.17	6.07	129.86	127.33	2.53		5.82	4	3.87	63.9
	6.33	3520	191.7	7.91	111.61	6.46	129.86	127.74	2.11		6.19	4	3.86	64.3
	6.7	3680	191.7	7.91	192.11	6.85	129.86	128.76	1.09		6.58	4	3.83	65.1
	7.09	3880	191.7	7.65	175.67	7.22	129.86	127.62	2.23		6.97	4	3.77	66.3
	7.49	4040	191.7	7.65	134.33	7.61	129.86	128.26	1.6		7.36	4	3.69	67.1
	7.88	4240	191.7	7.65	189.14	8	129.86	127.91	1.94		7.74	4	3.66	68.6
	8.25	4400	191.7	7.91	188.5	8.39	129.86	126.63	3.22		8.12	4	3.63	70.2
	8.64	4600	191.7	7.65	197.97	8.77	129.86	128.23	1.62		8.52	4	3.53	73.7
	9.03	4720	191.7	7.4	200.08	9.16	129.86	129.72	0.13		8.91	4	3.55	76.1
	9.43	4920	191.7	7.4	207	9.55	129.86	129.63	0.22		9.29	4	3.69	75.7
	9.8	5080	191.7	7.4	210.33	9.94	129.86	129.35	0.51		9.67	4	3.77	76.5
	10.19	5240	191.7	7.14	219.22	10.31	129.86	130.64	-0.78		10.07	4	3.76	78
	10.58	5400	191.7	7.14	223.69	10.71	129.86	128.98	0.87		10.46	4	3.71	81.6
	10.97	5560	191.7	7.14	230	11.1	129.86	129.2	0.66		10.83	4	3.76	84.3
	11.34	5680	191.7	7.4	238.22	11.49	129.86	129.22	0.63		11.22	4	3.95	78
	11.73	5840	191.7	7.4	245.08	11.86	129.86	129.26	0.6		11.61	4	3.74	88.6
	12.13	6000	191.7	7.14	242.72	12.25	129.86	132.76	-2.91		12	4	3.83	90.2
	12.52	6120	191.7	7.14	245.64	12.64	129.96	129.84	0.12		12.38	4	3.99	85.1
	12.89	6240	191.7	7.14	253.75	13.04	129.99	130.85	-0.87		12.77	4	3.96	85.9
	13.29	6360	191.7	7.4	251.78	13.41	129.99	130.68	-0.69		13.16	4	3.87	91.8
Click to expand...
Yes should be 4 bar from memory
 

POPOV

Newbie
Jun 25, 2005
581
2
Sweden
Well, changed my fuel filter to see if that made a difference.
It did but still have the timing pull and rich AFR :cry: .
What changed is that i now see LPFP request of 4,5 bar instead of only 4 bar.
Still not knowing what the accepted difference between current and specified is. Anyone with logs on group 231 kindly help me check or share your logs!

Code: 
020				Group B:	231				Group C:	031	
Cylinder 1 Ignition	Cylinder 2 Ignition	Cylinder 3 Ignition	Cylinder 4 Ignition		Pressure	Pressure	Load			Lambda Sensor	Lambda Sensor
Angle Delay	Angle Delay	Angle Delay	Angle Delay	TIME					TIME	Current Value	Specified Value
°KW	°KW	°KW	°KW	STAMP	bar	bar	%		STAMP		
0	0	0	0	0.08	4.5	4.09	40.4		0.2	0.95	1
0	0	0	0	0.45	4.5	4.04	44.3		0.6	0.99	1
0	0	0	0	0.84	4.5	4.26	43.9		0.97	0.99	1
0	0	0	0	1.23	4.5	4.48	41.6		1.36	0.97	1
0	0	0	0	1.62	4.5	4.53	40.8		1.75	0.99	1
-1.5	0	0	0	2	4.5	4.47	47.1		2.14	0.87	1
-1.5	0	0	0	2.39	4.5	4.38	49.8		2.52	1	0.92
-0.8	0	0	0	2.78	4.5	4.59	49.8		2.9	0.93	0.91
0	0	0	0	3.18	4.5	4.79	49.8		3.3	0.9	0.91
0	0	0	0	3.55	4.5	4.9	49		3.69	0.89	0.91
-3	0	0	-3	3.94	4.5	4.85	49.4		4.06	0.89	0.91
-3	-3	-3	-3	4.33	4.5	4.73	50.6		4.45	0.9	0.9
-3	-3	-3	-3	4.72	4.5	4.63	52.5		4.84	0.87	0.84
-3	-3	-3	-3	5.09	4.5	4.52	57.3		5.24	0.77	0.77
-3	-3	-3	-3	5.48	4.5	4.36	62.7		5.61	0.75	0.75
-3	-3	-3	-3	5.87	4.5	4.27	67.5		6	0.77	0.74
-2.3	-3	-3	-3	6.27	4.5	4.25	68.2		6.39	0.7	0.73
-2.3	-2.3	-3	-2.3	6.64	4.5	4.16	69.4		6.78	0.71	0.73
-1.5	-2.3	-2.3	-1.5	7.03	4.46	4.2	69.8		7.16	0.73	0.73
-4.5	-1.5	-1.5	-1.5	7.42	4.46	4.22	70.6		7.55	0.73	0.73
-4.5	-1.5	-1.5	-0.8	7.81	4.46	4.18	71.8		7.94	0.72	0.73
-4.5	-1.5	-1.5	-0.8	8.18	4.46	4.14	73.7		8.33	0.74	0.74
-3.8	-0.8	-1.5	-0.8	8.58	4.46	4.1	76.9		8.7	0.73	0.74
-3.8	-0.8	-0.8	0	8.97	4.46	4.06	79.2		9.09	0.74	0.75
-3	0	-0.8	0	9.36	4.46	4.08	82.7		9.49	0.75	0.76
-3	0	0	0	9.74	4.46	4.17	84.7		9.88	0.76	0.77
-3	0	0	0	10.12	4.46	4.34	81.2		10.25	0.75	0.77
-2.3	0	0	0	10.51	4.46	4.31	85.5		10.64	0.74	0.76
-2.3	0	0	0	10.91	4.46	4.3	88.2		11.03	0.77	0.77
-1.5	0	0	0	11.28	4.46	4.38	86.7		11.42	0.77	0.77
-1.5	0	0	0	11.67	4.46	4.36	89		11.8	0.77	0.78
-0.8	0	0	0	12.06	4.46	4.34	91.8		12.19	0.77	0.78
-0.8	0	0	0	12.45	4.46	4.33	91.8		12.58	0.77	0.78
-0.8	0	0	0	12.83	4.46	4.34	91.8		12.97	0.84	0.81
0	0	0	0	13.22	4.42	5.03	56.1		13.35	0.94	0.98
 

Poverty

Guest
send me a private message of your facebook details, I can put you in touch with some people who really know this engine inside out
 

POPOV

Newbie
Jun 25, 2005
581
2
Sweden
Small update, end of last week i changed coilpack and MAF that i purchased used. Parts where from a crashed 2012 tfsi engine with less then 10000 km on the clock.
Now i see timing pull at early revs but not at all at the end in the same way, other then that all is the same. This is opposite to before :confused:
Had a thought about the intake manifold flap, maybe it is stock and causing the engine to not get the correct amount of air at full throttle? But the car is not older then 30000 km so parts should not be faulty already.
Next i will do a compression test on the engine as robdf2 advised me in a PM, thanks for that Rob.

Code: 
Group A:	020				Group B:	026				Group C:	031	
	Cylinder 1 Ignition	Cylinder 2 Ignition	Cylinder 3 Ignition	Cylinder 4 Ignition		Voltage	Voltage	Voltage	Voltage		Lambda Sensor	Lambda Sensor
TIME	Angle Delay	Angle Delay	Angle Delay	Angle Delay	TIME					TIME	Current Value	Specified Value
STAMP	°KW	°KW	°KW	°KW	STAMP	V	V	V	V	STAMP		
0.01	-2.3	0	0	0	0.14	0.624	0.78	0.936	0.624	0.27	0.95	1
0.39	-1.5	0	0	0	0.52	0.78	1.092	1.092	1.092	0.66	0.98	0.92
0.78	-3	0	0	-3	0.91	1.092	1.404	1.092	0.936	1.03	0.89	0.89
1.17	-5.3	-3	0	-3	1.3	1.404	1.716	1.56	1.248	1.42	0.88	0.88
1.55	-5.3	-3	0	-5.3	1.69	1.404	2.34	2.34	1.404	1.82	0.82	0.8
1.94	-5.3	-3	-3	-5.3	2.07	1.716	2.496	2.34	1.56	2.21	0.75	0.74
2.33	-5.3	-3	-3	-5.3	2.46	1.872	2.808	2.184	1.716	2.58	0.75	0.73
2.72	-5.3	-3	-3	-5.3	2.85	2.184	2.808	2.34	1.872	2.97	0.7	0.72
3.1	-5.3	-3	-3	-5.3	3.24	2.34	3.276	2.184	2.184	3.36	0.67	0.72
3.49	-5.3	-3	-3	-5.3	3.61	2.184	3.276	2.34	2.184	3.75	0.72	0.74
3.88	0	0	0	0	4	2.964	3.744	2.808	2.808	4.12	0.78	0.77
4.26	0	0	0	0	4.39	4.212	4.368	3.432	3.276	4.52	0.78	0.77
4.64	-3	0	0	0	4.79	7.488	4.68	3.9	3.588	4.91	0.77	0.77
5.03	-3	0	0	0	5.16	8.112	5.46	4.836	5.616	5.3	0.77	0.77
5.42	-3	0	0	0	5.55	7.332	5.46	4.836	5.304	5.67	0.75	0.76
5.81	-2.3	0	0	0	5.94	7.02	6.24	5.148	5.46	6.07	0.75	0.76
6.19	-2.3	0	0	0	6.33	7.644	6.708	4.836	5.46	6.46	0.75	0.76
6.58	-2.3	0	0	0	6.7	5.46	6.864	4.836	5.148	6.85	0.75	0.76
6.97	-1.5	0	0	0	7.1	6.396	6.084	4.68	4.836	7.22	0.76	0.76
7.36	-1.5	0	0	0	7.49	6.396	6.864	5.148	5.304	7.61	0.76	0.76
7.74	-0.8	0	0	0	7.88	6.864	7.956	4.992	5.616	8	0.76	0.77
8.13	-0.8	0	0	0	8.25	7.02	8.112	5.304	5.304	8.39	0.76	0.77
8.52	-0.8	0	0	0	8.65	7.176	8.424	5.928	5.148	8.77	0.76	0.77
8.91	0	0	0	0	9.03	6.708	7.488	5.616	5.928	9.16	0.75	0.77
9.28	0	0	0	0	9.43	6.552	8.268	5.148	6.084	9.55	0.76	0.77
 
Last edited:

POPOV

Newbie
Jun 25, 2005
581
2
Sweden
Poverty said:
send me a private message of your facebook details, I can put you in touch with some people who really know this engine inside out
Click to expand...

Thankful for your help on this, really!
As i do not have any facebook account i will PM you my mail. If i had facebook i would have to do some explaning to some ladies, better avoiding that situation :happy:
 
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