Anti Roll Bars

[DOLBY]

so i think willie mentioned earlier about someone having everything i.e front and rear strut brace, rear spacers, front and rear ARBS and coilovers and saying how stiff that would be....well im still in the market for 25/28 roll bars as ive read heaps of research and this seems to be the most recommended....anyway silly question time, if for arguments sake that was my car (above), what are the main disadvantages of having a seriously stiff car? other than a bit more uncomfortable....can it have a detrimental affect to a car like the LCR as in being quite dangerous for the road?...

 

[Ruddmeister]

so i think willie mentioned earlier about someone having everything i.e front and rear strut brace, rear spacers, front and rear ARBS and coilovers and saying how stiff that would be....well im still in the market for 25/28 roll bars as ive read heaps of research and this seems to be the most recommended....anyway silly question time, if for arguments sake that was my car (above), what are the main disadvantages of having a seriously stiff car? other than a bit more uncomfortable....can it have a detrimental affect to a car like the LCR as in being quite dangerous for the road?...

I had that setup except the rear strut brace, comfort depends heavily on the coilovers.

A lot of people are concerned with how much they can slam the car and how cheap they can get a kit, IMO this is short signted and the coilovers are worth spending a few extra ££££'s on.

Damping was better than OEM setup through pot holes etc

It could, at times feela little 'choppy' on a fast undulating road.....the only time it was less comfortable than OEM setup IMO.

Dangerous? not IMO, rain and dry it was predicable and in the dry it was safe right up to (and beyond) the limit

Don't forget some decent tyres too

 

[DOLBY]

i have KW3s rudd....ok good info will bear it in mind

 

[Ruddmeister]

i have KW3s rudd....ok good info will bear it in mind

Good kit from what I understand the KW3's (not tried them myself) I had Bilstein PSS

ARB's are the second best value mod I did.....only bettered by the remap IMO

 

[lordgibbness]

what are the main disadvantages of having a seriously stiff car? other than a bit more uncomfortable....can it have a detrimental affect to a car like the LCR as in being quite dangerous for the road?...

This is the old "stiff isn't always better" argument.

On a perfectly smooth road the stiffer the better, but due to ol' blighty having some pretty bumpy roads an overly stiff setup will mean the wheels could spend less time in contact with the road and overall grip will suffer as a result. This is why the Subaru STi's are always so good on british roads as they are quite softly sprung for the UK.

For a fast road setup slightly softer suspension settings will actually be quicker, but on a smooth race track the stiffer setup will be better.

 

[Dyscontinued]

But to upgrade in proportion is hard as the standard off the factory setup is absent any rear ARB at all.

I'd just go with the general consensus on here (which is what I did) and am very happy with it, massive improvement just don't enter corners too fast, which is how it should be anyway.

 

[lordgibbness]

Yeah, I'm still waiting to see if anyone else has put a smaller ARB on the rear compared to the front. Just adding a small rear ARB will be a massive percentage increase in stiffness (if you look at the matrix I supplied earlier detailing bar thinkness increases) and I'm thinking that this might be all you need.

The thing is I want to find out more than the general concensus as it seems a lot of people have gone along with that without exploring the other routes, and I'd like to be sure of what I'm doing otherwise I'll probably just leave it as standard. I should probably have some seaches on the other VAG forums to get their ideas as well.

A quick look around showed a lot of RWD cars with thicker front ARBs and smaller rear ARBs, but this will probably be because you won't want the axel with the driving wheels to be too stiff and to leave the ground, as traction out of corners would then be affected. However, I also don't want the rear too stiff and skittish.

 

[DOLBY]

cool info, stiff cars as you say dont always make a better car... so because i have a rear strut brace i could probably get away with a 25mm rear bar as that should equate to a 28mm bar minus the rear strut?..

 

[lordgibbness]

Well, strut braces do a slightly different job to ARBs. A strut brace stops the bodywork from flexing or wobbling (which is especially noticable on the front), but it doesn't really stop body roll. ARBs, on the other hand, tie the suspension on both sides together so that they become less independant but in the process reduce body roll.

I aim to buy an adjustable rear ARB so that I can adjust it to meet my driving style. Usually, the middle setting is equal to a standard ARB, and the other two will go softer or stiffer (so on a 25mm ARB, soft will be like 23mm and stiff 27mm).

Edit: I think it is fine to stiffen up the bodywork as much as you can with braces as you really want the suspension to do the work rather than flex in the body.

 

[Ruddmeister]

But to upgrade in proportion is hard as the standard off the factory setup is absent any rear ARB at all.

Your correct it has a torsion bar type configuration instead on the rear

Therefore I creditted SEAT with some type of knowledge and experience on suspension and thought upgrade the 2 roughly in proportion.

 

[lordgibbness]

loosing the will to live...............

I hope that isn't my fault Rudd - I did say that I want to run this thread for a long time to collect as much info I can on the topic

 

[lordgibbness]

Your correct it has a torsion bar type configuration instead on the rear

Therefore I creditted SEAT with some type of knowledge and experience on suspension and thought upgrade the 2 roughly in proportion.

That's something worth noting actually, as the beam will effectively be doing the job of an ARB already...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twist-beam_rear_suspension

 

[lordgibbness]

Another very good point I forgot about. I've had a CG lock http://www.cg-lock.co.uk/app/performance/ for three years ish. this has aloud me to fully concentrate on getting the best out of the handling of the car without worrying about being thrown about in my seat.

Hi Willie, been reading up about that CG lock and I think it sounds like a great little aid! Does anyone fancy a group buy on this one? According to this page we should be able to set one up. Gotta be an essential mod for those of us without race harnesses (and you can still lean forard to reach the dash)

Regarding the different ARB manufacturers is it only the Eibach bar which clashes with the OEM exhaust or does this affect all except Neuspeed? Other ARBs are from Whiteline, H&R, KW, etc. Thanks.

 

[Ronin225]

I think its all except neuspeed that clash, thats why most people run them
With the CG lock i would definitely be interested as no really bolstered and supported seats are available without going for buckets
R32 seats are better bolstered etc but are rare and go for silly money
I would like to keep the seats OEM or looking similar so CG lock seems best option

 

[Willie]

Hi Willie, been reading up about that CG lock and I think it sounds like a great little aid! Does anyone fancy a group buy on this one? According to this page we should be able to set one up. Gotta be an essential mod for those of us without race harnesses (and you can still lean forard to reach the dash)

Regarding the different ARB manufacturers is it only the Eibach bar which clashes with the OEM exhaust or does this affect all except Neuspeed? Other ARBs are from Whiteline, H&R, KW, etc. Thanks.

CG lock is great, also used it for my kids baby seat, it didn't move which was reassuring for new parents.
AFAIK it's only the Neuspeed one that doesn't clash with the OEM rear box but a slight twat with hammer also can help/sort this

 

[james walker]

Hi Willie, been reading up about that CG lock and I think it sounds like a great little aid! Does anyone fancy a group buy on this one? According to this page we should be able to set one up. Gotta be an essential mod for those of us without race harnesses (and you can still lean forard to reach the dash)

Regarding the different ARB manufacturers is it only the Eibach bar which clashes with the OEM exhaust or does this affect all except Neuspeed? Other ARBs are from Whiteline, H&R, KW, etc. Thanks.

id e up for a gb on this..... ask the mods forst though to avoid any complications.

looking for the next thing in my handling setup, after just getting the quaife on, im hooked now>

 

[Ruddmeister]

Regarding the different ARB manufacturers is it only the Eibach bar which clashes with the OEM exhaust or does this affect all except Neuspeed? Other ARBs are from Whiteline, H&R, KW, etc. Thanks.

On an OEM LCR only the Neuspeed misses the rear exhuast box.

H&R and Eibach both tried (by Feel amongst others) and both catch the exhaust box.

Not sure whiteline do a kit......

One owner did modify his rear exhaust box with a lump hammer

After market exhausts have smaller back box's and then 'most' MK4 Golf applications will fit.

I hope that isn't my fault Rudd

No it was learning new information like the fact the LCR doesn't have a rear ARB apparently......Which after 5 pages of thread and numerous links was kind of stating the obvious IMO

 

[Punch IT!]

On an OEM LCR only the Neuspeed misses the rear exhuast box.

H&R and Eibach both tried (by Feel amongst others) and both catch the exhaust box.

Not sure whiteline do a kit......

One owner did modify his rear exhaust box with a lump hammer

After market exhausts have smaller back box's and then 'most' MK4 Golf applications will fit.



No it was learning new information like the fact the LCR doesn't have a rear ARB apparently......Which after 5 pages of thread and numerous links was kind of stating the obvious IMO

Hi is this the same with the LC??

 

[lordgibbness]

I've just emailed to ask if they can offer a group by and we'll go from there, but they seem very worthwhile. Think I might get a couple so my gf isn't thrown all over the place while I'm sat all snug

Well, most of my car is still OEM, including the exhaust so I'll be going for a Neuspeed rear ARB in that case. Will have to find out whether both of their bars (25 and 28mm) are adjustable as I really want to be able to tweak if necessary.

Cheers,
Rob.

 

[lordgibbness]

http://www.neuspeed-europe.com/section.php?xSec=538

Looks like the rears are adjustable in both sizes. As I don't want to go overly-stiff I think a 22/25 setup would be a good choice (probably with the rear on the soft setting). Good thing about the adjustable bar is it will give me effectively a choice of 23-25-27 to balance the car.

Anyone reckon that the 25mm front would match nicely with this instead (as it means the front matches the middle setup on the rear)? Or would the overly stiff front cause problems with front lift on tight corners just when you need the drive.

When I was digging around it was mentioned that an overly stiff ARB on the drive axel can lose you traction out tight of corners as you'd only have one wheel on the ground to pull you round (hence, I think, why RWD always have a stiffer front setup).