K04 023 Question

[classy6]

Hiya guys,

I've registered to this forum not because I drive a Seat but because there seems to be a wealth of information about the K04 turbo on here and I'm struggling to find answers else where... hopefully someone can help!

Basically I'm dropping an AMK 20v turbo engine (s3 2001) into a mk2 golf. Whilst rebuilding the engine and inspecting the turbo, I found out it's knackered. It's fitted with a K04 023 - with the hole for for the exhaust gas temperature probe.

Because the turbo is cracked and damaged (excessive bearing play) I'm looking for a new K04 023 - these however seem particularly hard to come by.

On the up side, I've found a few K04's without the housing for the exhaust temperature probe in the turbo and I'm wondering, if I run it without if it will have a major detrimental affects on the engine running?

On top of that, the actual connector/circuit board attached to the end of the probe has melted so I'm in need a new one which is about £140 which I could really do without...

If it's essential input to the ECU control? looks like I'll have to hold out or bite the bullet with a new one. If it's just another actual value though maybe I can run it without? Resistor maybe?

If anyone has any ideas on the matter, or a relative K04 023 turbo for sale... would very much appreciated as this issue is holding me up!

Edit: I've found out that the readings taken from the EGT are used to adjust fuel quantities & alter timing to lower EGT's so it's looking like quite an important sensor! Anyone run one without though?

 

[ibizacupra]

can you not get the unit you have rebuilt? Cr Turbo's for example could recon it.
presume you are retaining stock ecu in this conversion. (immo defeat also?)

 

[classy6]

can you not get the unit you have rebuilt? Cr Turbo's for example could recon it.
presume you are retaining stock ecu in this conversion. (immo defeat also?)

I'm having the turbo sent away to Midland turbos for inspection, however I've spoken to AET engineering, Turbo dynamics & another company that the name escapes me - TD have said the K04 suffer with a common problem of the bearing housing actually cracking causing the play in the shaft? AET said they probably wouldn't be able to do anything with the crack across the waste gate housing?

Midland will inspect it for free and will provide me with an estimate to repair it, however with problems with the play in the shaft, scored housing, damaged impellor and crack across the waste gate valve, I personally can't see them doing anything to repair it, and if they can it being more cost effective than just buying another turbo?

If I can't do anything to solve this EGT probe issue either, think I may just find a supplier that can provide me a brand new K04 023 for the best price - can eliminate any worry of used parts then (considering my luck) - if anyone has any recommendations

 

[classy6]

can you not get the unit you have rebuilt? Cr Turbo's for example could recon it.
presume you are retaining stock ecu in this conversion. (immo defeat also?)

Yes retaining standard ECU with immobiliser bypass.

I'm having the turbo sent away to Midland turbos for inspection (free), however I've spoke to AET engineering, Turbo dynamics & another company that the name escapes me - Turbo Dynamics have said the K04 suffer with a common problem of the bearing housing actually cracking causing the play in the shaft? AET said they probably wouldn't be able to do anything with the crack across the waste gate housing?

Midland will inspect it for free and will provide me with an estimate to repair it, however with problems with the play in the shaft, scored housing, damaged impellor and crack across the waste gate valve, I personally can't see them doing anything to repair it, and if they can it being more cost effective than just buying another turbo?

Any contact details for CR Turbos?

If I can't do anything to solve this EGT probe issue either, think I may just find a supplier that can provide me a brand new K04 023 for the best price - can eliminate any worry of used parts then (considering my luck) - if anyone has any recommendations

 

[ibizacupra]

by the magic of Google

http://www.crturbos.co.uk/

I speak with Mark there. very helpful

[email protected]

Postal Enquiries:

The Workshop,
Ashley Lane,
New Milton,
Hampshire,
BH25 5AQ

Telephone Enquiries:
01425 638426 (UK)
+ 44 (0)1425 638426

Fax Enquiries:
01425 610863 (UK)
+ 44 (0) 1425 610863

 

[LUPO GTI 20VT]

egt

if you run the car with the egt unplugged it wil make it over fuel i ran my car with it unplugged for a while car still ran ok jst black smoked on start up al the time which is caused by over fueling

 

[Willie]

You really know the answer to these questions don't you.
TBH as you know, your better off getting a good turbo and fitting this now before dropping the engine in as it will save a lot of grief and worry later on.
New KO4 turbos that have been hybrided to give 280 BHP for £1,000 from Backdraft motorsport and CR turbos

 

[classy6]

I do... However I'm a broke apprentice who has a million and one other things to buy for this conversion and a turbo was not anticipated to be one of them lol!

I just wanted to see if it was really the last option I had - as a brand new K04 turbo is going to set me back a minimum of £600 and Hybrid turbo about a grand like you said.

Still can't convince myself whether the Hybrid turbo is worth it yet though for what seems like an addition 20bhp on an already 'pushed to the limit' 20v bottom end.

I shall contact CR turbos though & have a chat see if I can get a few of these guys to price match a little haha

Ta.

 

[classy6]

Well just a confusing update...

I was just looking through ELSA Win for oil capacity when I found this...

Well just a confusing update...

I was just looking through ELSA Win for oil capacity when I found this...

It says the AMK engine does not use EGT control? It's fitted on my engine/turbo though. So bit confused as it if it doesn't use it as a control, is it just another actual value? I assume it is actually needed as the loom and ECU inputs are there.

Needless to say, I'm a bit stumped now....

It says the AMK engine does not use EGT control? It's fitted on my engine/turbo though. So bit confused as it if it doesn't use it as a control, is it just another actual value? I assume it is actually needed as the loom and ECU inputs are there.

Needless to say, I'm a bit stumped now....

 

[classy6]

Won't let me post URLs?

If someone can put the http :// in front of that it should work.

 

[Willie]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/crisp19888/AMKAPYBAMEngineInfo.jpg

 

[pekingprawn]

ive read on vortex that the only k04 turbo to be fitted to an LCR / S3 / TT with an EGT sensor is the K04-023 found on the BAM, which would fit with that jpg above.

I've fitted an -023 to my golf and i plugged the sensor hole with a machined plug using the correct thread. Worst case scenario running without it is some rather hot EGT's but your mapper can keep an eye on this during mapping and ensure it doesnt get silly.

I'd also recommend heatwrapping the downpipe / exhaust all the way to the backbox. I did and i get flames and stuff out the back

 

[classy6]

ive read on vortex that the only k04 turbo to be fitted to an LCR / S3 / TT with an EGT sensor is the K04-023 found on the BAM, which would fit with that jpg above.

I've fitted an -023 to my golf and i plugged the sensor hole with a machined plug using the correct thread. Worst case scenario running without it is some rather hot EGT's but your mapper can keep an eye on this during mapping and ensure it doesnt get silly.

I'd also recommend heatwrapping the downpipe / exhaust all the way to the backbox. I did and i get flames and stuff out the back

It seems that more than just the 023 comes with the egt port can't remember the #'s exactly but there are.

I wouldn't run the engine without the sensor either as it's a pretty important one, and just because EGTs are fine during a mapping session doesn't mean to say it'll never reach excessive temperatures when in normal operation.

I don't understand heatwrapping the exhaust all the way back? What benefit have you got here? Sounds like your running rich too...


Settled for a new K04 023 in the end anyway. £620 all in from Turbocentre UK.. highly recommend them, turbo comes with 2 yr guarantee to

 

[pekingprawn]

I agree, if the engine you have usually takes a reading from the sensor, i wouldnt run without it.

Ive also been told that in terms of EGT's, mapping temps will be very indicative of the range the car will experience during its lifetime. The ECU will adapt, so if anything EGT's are more likely to be lesser than that during the mapping process. Bill or someone more in the know would be able to confirm this, i dont proclaim to be an expert, i've just asked the same questions in the past.

I've heatwrapped my exhaust all the way to the backbox mainly to get the backbox as hot as possible and to direct heat away from the engine bay. Hot backbox equals some nice flames every now and then

I am running rich just now, not too badly but i'd rather be a little rich than lean before my map is finished properly, so that should be spot on once im mapped up

620 is a decent deal for a new 023. Although, i paid 200 for mine and pulled it from a 12k miles TT myself, sent it to CR turbos to get checked for 60 quid and it's mint apparently! Good scope to go down the hybrid and high flow manifold route later if i wish

 

[classy6]

I agree, if the engine you have usually takes a reading from the sensor, i wouldnt run without it.

Ive also been told that in terms of EGT's, mapping temps will be very indicative of the range the car will experience during its lifetime. The ECU will adapt, so if anything EGT's are more likely to be lesser than that during the mapping process. Bill or someone more in the know would be able to confirm this, i dont proclaim to be an expert, i've just asked the same questions in the past.

I've heatwrapped my exhaust all the way to the backbox mainly to get the backbox as hot as possible and to direct heat away from the engine bay. Hot backbox equals some nice flames every now and then

I am running rich just now, not too badly but i'd rather be a little rich than lean before my map is finished properly, so that should be spot on once im mapped up

620 is a decent deal for a new 023. Although, i paid 200 for mine and pulled it from a 12k miles TT myself, sent it to CR turbos to get checked for 60 quid and it's mint apparently! Good scope to go down the hybrid and high flow manifold route later if i wish

EGTs will probably be fairly accurate for normal use I'd of thought.. but still I don't expect they take into account prolonged abuse with massive amounts of heat accumulating due to excessive use of the turbo & higher engine RPM's?

Never heard of people heat wrapping the exhaust all the way back or the flames.... I thought the idea was remove heat, or contain heat and prevent it getting to hot to close to the bulkhead. Have you benefited from it at all?

I looked for ages for a K04... got a bit fed up and wanted piece of mind in the end to. I did phone CR turbos, however they never got back to me when the women I spoke to said they would

 

[DaveV6]

a good hybrid k04 is worth more than 20 bhp,mine makes a real 300 bhp from 4800 up and is still holding the power at 6700 rpms were a standard ko4-023 sees power tailing off quickly after 6000rpms...340 lb ft torque to go with it as well.

 

[classy6]

a good hybrid k04 is worth more than 20 bhp,mine makes a real 300 bhp from 4800 up and is still holding the power at 6700 rpms were a standard ko4-023 sees power tailing off quickly after 6000rpms...340 lb ft torque to go with it as well.

Uprated anything in order to run it?

Something I will be looking it at in the near future.. once the car's up and running.

Is that a real 300bhp at the wheels?

 

[pekingprawn]

EGTs will probably be fairly accurate for normal use I'd of thought.. but still I don't expect they take into account prolonged abuse with massive amounts of heat accumulating due to excessive use of the turbo & higher engine RPM's?

Never heard of people heat wrapping the exhaust all the way back or the flames.... I thought the idea was remove heat, or contain heat and prevent it getting to hot to close to the bulkhead. Have you benefited from it at all?

I looked for ages for a K04... got a bit fed up and wanted piece of mind in the end to. I did phone CR turbos, however they never got back to me when the women I spoke to said they would

CR turbos are fantastic, mark is a legend, he's given me a huge amount of advice and pointers long before i even got them to do any work! You're prob right on EGT's, extended use will have the highest EGT's but it wont ever fluctuate too much higher than the already fairly extreme temps that mapping will bring out.

The heatwrapping has done exactly that, taken the temp away from the engine bay / bulkhead and contained it within the exhaust all the way to the backbox. This has done 3 things, increased the speed of gas flow, reduced backpressure a little and increased the temp the backbox gets to, rather than the underside / hangers etc. You see rally cars popping and flames out the exhaust, this is the excess fuel igniting and the hot gases being pushed out the pipes. Rally cars do it because they run hot, mine does it cos it runs hot Granted i could have heatwrapped only to the decat, but that wouldnt provide as many pops and bangs and flames, which is more fun

 

[ibizacupra]

a good hybrid k04 is worth more than 20 bhp,mine makes a real 300 bhp from 4800 up and is still holding the power at 6700 rpms were a standard ko4-023 sees power tailing off quickly after 6000rpms...340 lb ft torque to go with it as well.

what airflow g/s do you see from your hybrid? what hybrid is it?
logged 251g/s on a hybrid last weekend whilst mapping so curious. (25psi peak, 22psi sustained)
thx

 

[wild willy]

what airflow g/s do you see from your hybrid? what hybrid is it?
logged 251g/s on a hybrid last weekend whilst mapping so curious. (25psi peak, 22psi sustained)
thx

fecking hell Bill, thats an awesome amount of air flow. how did it feel compared to an entry level IHI.

The later AMK engines certainly did have the egt turbo sensor. Its reduces the injector duty cycle when the sensor reads over 950 degrees.This is to protect mani and turbo from over heating.