handbrake and ABS problems

[mark90]

hi my handbreak has to be pulled a long way before it works...and the light never comes on beside the speed dial...??

also the ABS seems to be kicking in rather easily??is this normal...never had it before...but its quite annoyin to here and feel the brakes doing this...

also when i open doors with head lights on the buzzer doesn't sound...is that just a fuse ya??

 

[st10587]

1. handbrake needs adjusting
2. handbrake light....not all of them have it but they still have the symbol on the dials
3. ABS most complain it kicks in to early
4. Head lights could be many things normal one is the door switch on the drivers door, check to see if the light comes on when you open the drivers door when all others doors/boot are shut.

 

[RUM4MO]

Do you have rear disc brakes, if so has someone changed the rear pads and forgotten to "re-zero" the rear piston adjusters? If you have rear drum brakes, it could be that the mechanical levers are seized. Normally, if left alone, these handbrake cables do not need adjusting - but if someone does not know what they are doing and starts adjusting the cable then problems can arise - BTW its not the old handbrake lever breaking off game from the previous VAG platforms is it?

 

[nealo]

Do you have rear disc brakes, if so has someone changed the rear pads and forgotten to "re-zero" the rear piston adjusters?

What do you mean by re-zero? I changed my rear brakes and the handbrake is a bit slacker than it was before. Cheers.

 

[robepton]

Adjusting the handbrake is really easy.

Just remove the cup holder from behind the handbrake. It should just pull out.

And then you can get an OJ spanner on the adjustment nut.

I would sort that out first and then see if it solves the abs problem.

I've read somewhere that the abs sensors sometimes get dirty with all the brake dust. Maybe worth a look.

 

[robepton]

From what i remember the rear brakes re zero automatically you just have to use the foot brake and the hand brake at same time a couple of times.

If ya still not sure you can get a haynes manual for a polo and it's more or less identical.

 

[Danneh]

How hard are you pushing the brakes??

As said Handbrake needs adjusting most probably

 

[RUM4MO]

What do you mean by re-zero? I changed my rear brakes and the handbrake is a bit slacker than it was before. Cheers.

I was meaning that if you have rear discs, the pistons need wound back fully. change the pads, apply the brakes firmly a few times, then use the handbrake for the first time. Same thing applies to the rear drum brakes to force the aut adjusters to take up their new correct position. I've read lots about people just readjusting their handbrake cable - but in over 30 years of having cars, new and old, I'd never had to readjust the handbrake cable to achieve correct operation - doing that normally masks another problem. Well okay, I did adjust a Fiesta one once - but that was only after replacing a seized one!

One last thing, if you have rear disc brakes, are both handbrake levers returning to their stops when the handbrake is off?

 

[nealo]

I was meaning that if you have rear discs, the pistons need wound back fully. change the pads, apply the brakes firmly a few times, then use the handbrake for the first time. Same thing applies to the rear drum brakes to force the aut adjusters to take up their new correct position. I've read lots about people just readjusting their handbrake cable - but in over 30 years of having cars, new and old, I'd never had to readjust the handbrake cable to achieve correct operation - doing that normally masks another problem. Well okay, I did adjust a Fiesta one once - but that was only after replacing a seized one!

One last thing, if you have rear disc brakes, are both handbrake levers returning to their stops when the handbrake is off?

Thanks for the reply. Mine is a cupra so it has disk brakes.
I didn't want to just readjust the handbrake cable because it was ok before the brakes were done. I thought it must be something else.
At first the brakes were rubbish after changing front and back pads and disks. I found out from this forum that one of the rear pistons was still stuck in. I sorted this by unscrewing a tiny amount and the brakes are now fine and stop hard... but it seems like i have to press the pedal down further than i had to when the car was new. The handbrake is a lot slacker than it was before changing the brakes.
After doing the brakes I pumped the brake pedal (engine off) a few times and then pulled the handbrake on.
Any other ideas what it could be? I'd rather sort the problem out than just tighten the cable up.
Cheers

 

[RUM4MO]

It sounds like the rear adjusters have not re-adjusted themselves back out after you fully retracted them, have a look at the yoke at the end of the handbrake "handle", if one side has a problem then the yoke will be badly off to one side when the handbrake is on, if both sides have a problem then it will be sitting at right angles to the adjusting bar. Maybe I've given you the wrong order to do things - or maybe you have done them in the wrong order, I'll look in my Haynes book to night (maybe the hand brake is pulled on firmly BEFORE the foot brake is pressed - I can't remember at the moment!).

 

[robepton]

I know rum4mo said you shouldn't have to adjust the handbrake cable and I sure he's got far more experience than me however I had to adjust mine when I did it recently (just one notch) and it does say in the manual to adjust the handbrake cable and I usually make the assumption that the manual is correct. Also if you adjust the hand brake on disks it adjusts both cables together anyway so it should cause any problems because they have the same self adjusting mechanism as drum brakes.

If you've resolved the other problems I'd give that ago.

 

[nealo]

cheers for the replies

 

[RUM4MO]

I've checked my Haynes manual for the 9N Polo, and I was right the first time, press the foot brske firmly first to move the pistons out, then with the foot brake off, apply the handbrake a few times to let the adjusters wind out. After that chech that the gap between the levers and their stops on the rear calliper is between 1.0mm and 1.5mm - personally I'd stick to 1.0mm or a bit less as this leaves the cable slightly too slack than slightly too tight. The lever return spring is built into the calliper asembly - so they might need helped back a bit to check this!

When I first had a partially dragging pad on one side only, I traced it down to these levers, or one lever not returning - I wound the piston back in and made sure (if that is possible) that the lever was free to return a bit - even although it still had a "lazy" spring - and the brakes were okay - although that calliper was and still is a faulty.

 

[RUM4MO]

I know rum4mo said you shouldn't have to adjust the handbrake cable and I sure he's got far more experience than me however I had to adjust mine when I did it recently (just one notch) and it does say in the manual to adjust the handbrake cable and I usually make the assumption that the manual is correct. Also if you adjust the hand brake on disks it adjusts both cables together anyway so it should cause any problems because they have the same self adjusting mechanism as drum brakes.

If you've resolved the other problems I'd give that ago.

What made me answer in the way I did was that as the listed problems included a "long foot brake pedal" and a high handbrake lever - but only replacing the rear brakes - that would point to the rear brakes not re-adjusting correctly after re-assembly. These handbrake cables are tough and will be pre-stretched before supplied as parts, and these cars, especially the ones with rear disc brakes normally have light action handbrakes - so cable stretch should not be an issue really - the cars with rear drum brakes do tend to end up with their internal levers getting a bit stiff - so they are more prone to people getting rough with the handbrake to overcome that other problem - so they might just end up getting stretched a bit!

I think that you might be surprised just how high (number of clicks) a handbrake needs to go before it earns an MOT fail!

 

[nealo]

I've had another go at the rear brakes this morning.
Attached are photies of the nearside caliper (from the back), showing the handbrake cable with the handbrake off, then on. when the handbrake is on the lever on the caliper is as far as it can go and i am still able to rotate the wheel. the last photo shows the cables at the handbrake end - the nearside is longer than the offside. The offside handbrake lever on the caliper only moves a few millimeters between off and on.
Not sure what this means.
Any further suggestions?

*update: The brakes are now terrible with no stopping power whatsoever. Foot very nearly touching the floor!
Also, the car is making a stupid ticking noise while running - it has only started doing it since i did the brakes this morning - is it something to do with the vacuum (diesel engine)?
I think i will have to take it into seat to do because this is beyond my limits!
Cheers
Neal

 

[RUM4MO]

Aye, the clue is in the last picture, the yoke thing should be "horizontal in that picture" - this just ties in with what you have described, the N/S cable is being pulled further than the O/S and that means that the piston internal screw adjustment has not moved the piston back out after the pads were replaced. This could mean a new N/S calliper assembly is now needed unless your garage know some way round this problem!

 

[nealo]

Aye, the clue is in the last picture, the yoke thing should be "horizontal in that picture" - this just ties in with what you have described, the N/S cable is being pulled further than the O/S and that means that the piston internal screw adjustment has not moved the piston back out after the pads were replaced. This could mean a new N/S calliper assembly is now needed unless your garage know some way round this problem!

Thanks, will take it in and see what they say. its still under warranty so hope it can be done without cost to me.
Will keep you posted.

 

[RUM4MO]

When my wife's Polo "did that" slightly, while under warranty, I stupidly thought that the yoke part was bent from new - so I managed to find a car that I could buy one for (these cars get fitted with a complete handbrake lever assembly so that individual part is not available), anyway, when I compared it with what was on the Polo they were identical. So I took the N/S calliper off, rewound the piston, refitted it all and it worked out okay. VW people said that they would have a look then maybe replace the calliper assembly - I didn't want Mr VW taking that car to bits at that time so I've lived with it. I've been lucky so far and just had to re-zero the piston adjustment once a year over the past eight years, I just hope that I stay lucky when I replace the discs and pads this year!

 

[nealo]

Car booked in for Friday. Spoke to the technician and showed him the above photos. He's had cars in before with the same problem, so i'm quite pleased that its going to get sorted soon.

 

[RUM4MO]

That's good news, when I've looked again at the first picture I can now see (after comparing it against another picture elsewhere - I've forgotten where!), you can see that the lever is not getting returned fully to its upper (off) stop. It is just possible that if you make it return to this stop - force it back by hand and it stays there - then the piston might just wind out and take up its correct position, on the other hand if the calliper is faulty then nothing will change. Its worth a try if you want to avoid the inconvenience of dropping the car off.