LC Running Rich - Not Any Longer

[Avant4me]

VAG LOGS NOW DONE Need help diagnosing

Please help. Since Oct my AUQ LC has been running rich. After lots of trying things i feel like i am banging my head on a brick wall.

At first the Car was running way too much CO and was struggling for power beyond 4000 rpm.

THis was thought to be the MAF so a replacement was sought. THis did not solve the problem and it was looked at by VW Rescue in Wolverhampton.
They diagnosed a faulty MAF and fitted a genuine VW one which was a massive improvement. Unfortunately they do not have a gas analyser and so based on the improved driving, thought all was well.

After noticing that the MPG was seriously suffering (24 mpg on a steady motorway run!!!) it was put on a gas analyser again and found to be running rich as soon as it comes off idle.

So far i have tried
ECU coolant sensor - Replaced with green top, but was already a green one there.
Front lambda sensor - genuine part tested with no improvment so original put back on so i can at least get some money back

EGR valve removed, checked and re-fitted.

Basically i feel like i am banging my head on a wall and a lot of the local injection specialists do not want to get involved.

The best results i got today were
CO % - 1.6 (should be 0.2 max)
CO2 % - 14
Lambda value 0.95

I am open to suggestions, hopefully things i can do to diagnose the problem before i have to buy more sensors on a trial and error basis.

If anyone wants a front lambda sensor which was only run for 5 mins, let me know!


Thanks
MAtt

 

[DPJ]

VagCom logs of block 031?

 

[ArosaRacer]

Amanda's was running really cack, so i Cleaned air filter, serviced DV, and cleaned Throttle body, since doing this its improved loads,

 

[Stan 24v]

You need vag-com mate, soon by the sounds of it. There is still a possibility of a dodgy new MAF by the way, Ive had that before.

 

[Avant4me]

You need vag-com mate, soon by the sounds of it. There is still a possibility of a dodgy new MAF by the way, Ive had that before.

Thanks for all your sugestions. The throttle body was cleaned when the MAF was changed again. Don't think it lies with the MAF, as the car went really well on the rollers the same day.

Will check block 31 on VAG as soon as i am able.

 

[Avant4me]

VagCom logs of block 031?

What am i looking for on this? i know the front lambda should alternate between 0 and 1v but what readings should the rear one give?

 

[DPJ]

What am i looking for on this? i know the front lambda should alternate between 0 and 1v but what readings should the rear one give?

The block will show actual and requested fuelling. Multiply the figures by 14.7 to get a/f ratio. If you do a power run (ask if you don't know how) and post results we can see what's happening. Much more accurate than a probe up the exhaust.

 

[Avant4me]

how do i do the power run? do i just need too log block 31 or 33 as well?

 

[Big_daddy]

how do i do the power run? do i just need too log block 31 or 33 as well?

Heres a quick guide with some main logs to use.

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=140827&highlight=guide

having similer issue, getting around 17mpg around town and 30mpg on the motoway (v-power). exhaust showing alot of black deposit Once the car comes back after the new suspension is fitted, will get a new temp sensor. getting abit annoyed, as the fuel consumption is burning a whole in my pocket.

 

[beezasport]

i need to look at this thread too as mine smells very rich

 

[Havok316]

The MAF contributes to the Air/Fule Mix sure your MAF isnt on its way out? doesnt matter if its replaced recently. Will have to check it out when my mate brings the VAGCOM back to work new years day

 

[DPJ]

how do i do the power run? do i just need too log block 31 or 33 as well?

For a Leon...

003, 118, 115,020, 031, and 032 are a good starting point.

Do no more than 2 at a time to get any reasonable samples.
003 and 020, then 115 and 031, then 118 and 032.
This gives you, airflow, actual timing, timing pull, requested boost, actual boost, target air fuel, actual airfuel, n75 duty, inlet temp, actual boost, and then finally fuel trims.

 

[Avant4me]

First job of the new year then. Better not be the bloody MAF again, i am sick of them now

 

[Big_daddy]

Update

new temp sensor fitted and changed from v-power to sainsbury super super unlead, dont think it make much differernt from 108.9 to 104.9

MOT is due, so im try the treatment : cataclean, seen it on TV it reduces the emission alot.

 

[Avant4me]

VAG Results

For a Leon...

Have done lots of logging ith the help of Kev [Havoc 316] but to be honest i do not know what i am looking at with blocks 30-33 as they are new to me. Air flow readings do seem a little on the low side though? How do you guys want me to post the results? Might be best if you want to look at the whole lot for me to email the whole spread sheet.

Thanks

Matt

 

[Big_daddy]

Quite simple, copy the fields from excel and past it into here, Make sure you put the Wrap code so the layout donst alter.
If you want email me and i up load.

 

[WeeJase]

If anyone wants a front lambda sensor which was only run for 5 mins, let me know!

how much?

 

[Avant4me]

how much?

Will let you know in a day or two, just about to post the results of my logging

 

[Big_daddy]

Mashoo810 logs

The logs were done in pairs all in 4th gear.

Group A:	003				Group B:	020			
	Engine Speed	Intake Air Mass	Throttle Drive	Ignition		Cylinder 1 Ignition	Cylinder 2 Ignition	Cylinder 3 Ignition	Cylinder 4 Ignition
TIME			Angle Sensor 1	Timing Angle	TIME	Angle Delay	Angle Delay	Angle Delay	Angle Delay
STAMP	 /min	 g/s	 %	 ﾰATDC	STAMP	 CF	 CF	 CF	 CF
0.31	1880	37.11	100	15	0.02	3	3	3	3
0.92	2000	45.22	100	9	0.6	3	3	3	3
1.51	2160	56.56	100	9	1.2	3	3	3	3
2.11	2320	70.92	100	6	1.81	2.3	3	3	3
2.72	2520	86.67	100	5.3	2.41	2.3	2.3	2.3	2.3
3.32	2760	99.39	100	4.5	3.01	2.3	5.3	2.3	2.3
3.92	2960	106.39	100	3.8	3.61	2.3	5.3	5.3	5.3
4.52	3120	117.53	100	4.5	4.22	2.3	5.3	5.3	5.3
5.13	3320	122.92	100	5.3	4.82	2.3	5.3	5.3	5.3
5.73	3560	132.14	100	6	5.43	1.5	4.5	5.3	5.3
6.34	3760	137.81	100	6.8	6.03	1.5	4.5	4.5	4.5
6.94	3960	142.97	100	7.5	6.64	1.5	4.5	4.5	4.5
7.55	4160	150.58	99.6	9.8	7.25	1.5	4.5	4.5	4.5
8.14	4360	152.86	100	11.3	7.86	1.5	4.5	4.5	4.5
8.75	4560	158.78	100	12	8.46	1.5	3.8	4.5	3.8
9.36	4760	160.61	100	14.3	9.06	4.5	3.8	6.8	6.8
9.96	4920	162.72	100	13.5	9.65	4.5	6.8	6.8	6.8
10.56	5080	164.69	100	12	10.26	4.5	6.8	6.8	6.8
11.17	5240	166.25	100	12	10.86	4.5	6.8	6.8	6
11.76	5400	169.42	100	13.5	11.46	4.5	6	9.8	6
12.37	5520	170.78	100	12.8	12.06	3.8	6	9.8	6
12.98	5640	169.72	100	12	12.67	3.8	6	9.8	6
13.58	5760	170.5	100	12.8	13.31	3.8	6	9	5.3
14.19	5880	170.5	100	14.3	13.89	3.8	6	9	5.3
14.79	5960	173.5	99.6	11.3	14.49	3.8	5.3	9	5.3
15.4	6080	172.94	100	12.8	15.09	3	5.3	8.3	5.3
16.01	6160	172.14	100	12.8	15.69	3	5.3	8.3	5.3
16.59	6240	173.19	100	15	16.3	3	5.3	8.3	4.5
17.21	6240	94.75	21.6	-3.8	16.89	3	4.5	7.5	4.5
17.82	5360	17.11	7.5	9	17.51	0	0	0	0

Group A:	030				Group B:	032	
	Bank 1	Bin. Bits	Bin. Bits	Bin. Bits		Lambda (add.)	Lambda (mult.)
TIME	Sensor 1				TIME	Self-Adaptation	Self-Adaptation
STAMP					STAMP	 %	 %
0.02	111	110	        	        	0.27	0	0
0.57	111	110	        	        	0.87	0	0
1.18	111	110	        	        	1.48	0	0
1.81	11	110	        	        	2.11	0	0
2.38	11	110	        	        	2.68	0	0
3	111	110	        	        	3.29	0	0
3.59	111	110	        	        	3.89	0	0
4.19	111	110	        	        	4.5	0	0
4.8	111	110	        	        	5.12	0	0
5.4	11	110	        	        	5.7	0	0
6.01	11	110	        	        	6.31	0	0
6.61	111	110	        	        	6.91	0	0
7.22	111	110	        	        	7.62	0	0
7.92	11	110	        	        	8.23	0	0
8.52	11	110	        	        	8.83	0	0
9.12	111	110	        	        	9.42	0	0
9.73	111	110	        	        	10.05	0	0
10.34	111	110	        	        	10.66	0	0
10.94	11	110	        	        	11.34	0	0
11.64	11	110	        	        	11.94	0	0
12.24	111	110	        	        	12.55	0	0
12.85	111	110	        	        	13.15	0	0
13.45	111	110	        	        	13.75	0	0
14.09	11	110	        	        	14.46	0	0
14.76	111	110	        	        	15.09	0	0
15.36	111	110	        	        	15.68	0	0
15.98	111	110	        	        	16.28	0	0
16.58	11	110	        	        	16.87	0	0
17.18	11	110	        	        	17.49	0	0
17.78	11	110	        	        	18.11	0	0
18.4	111	110	        	        	18.69	0	0

Group A:	115				Group B:	031	
	Engine Speed	Engine Load	Charge Pressure	Charge Pressure		Lambda Sensor	Lambda Sensor
TIME			(specified Value)	(actual Value)	TIME	Current Value	Specified Value
STAMP	 /min	 %	 mbar	 mbar	STAMP		
0.26	2160	134.6	2400	1710	0.02	0.883	0.891
0.9	2320	160.2	2390	2000	0.56	0.899	0.891
1.57	2560	179.7	2400	2290	1.27	0.883	0.891
2.17	2760	185.7	2430	2390	1.87	0.899	0.891
2.78	2960	190.2	2470	2400	2.47	0.883	0.891
3.38	3200	191.7	2430	2400	3.08	0.883	0.891
3.98	3400	191.7	2390	2380	3.68	0.867	0.86
4.6	3600	191.7	2370	2380	4.28	0.844	0.852
5.21	3800	191.7	2380	2360	4.89	0.828	0.852
5.79	4000	188.7	2380	2360	5.49	0.836	0.852
6.41	4200	185.7	2330	2330	6.09	0.852	0.852
7	4400	183.5	2260	2300	6.71	0.852	0.844
7.7	4600	179.7	2200	2230	7.31	0.828	0.836
8.35	4800	176.7	2140	2180	8.01	0.828	0.828
9.02	4960	172.9	2070	2140	8.72	0.828	0.828
9.64	5120	169.2	2040	2090	9.32	0.828	0.821
10.24	5280	166.2	2000	2060	9.91	0.805	0.821
10.83	5400	163.2	1970	2000	10.54	0.797	0.821
11.53	5560	160.9	1940	1950	11.24	0.813	0.821
12.13	5680	157.9	1930	1930	11.84	0.797	0.813
12.74	5760	154.9	1900	1940	12.43	0.813	0.813
13.34	5880	153.4	1890	1870	13.04	0.821	0.821
13.95	5960	151.9	1890	1860	13.64	0.813	0.828
14.55	6080	148.9	1890	1850	14.25	0.828	0.828
15.15	6160	148.1	1890	1830	14.85	0.828	0.828
15.76	6240	146.6	1890	1840	15.46	0.828	0.828

Group A:	118				Group B:	032	
	Engine Speed	Intake Air	Charge Pressure	Charge Pressure		Lambda (add.)	Lambda (mult.)
TIME		Temperature	Solenoid Valve	(actual Value)	TIME	Self-Adaptation	Self-Adaptation
STAMP	 /min	ﾰC	 %	 mbar	STAMP	 %	 %
0.32	1960	21	86.3	1320	0.02	0	0
0.92	2080	21	86.3	1540	0.6	0	0
1.51	2240	21	86.3	1830	1.2	0	0
2.12	2400	21	86.3	2170	1.81	0	0
13.9	5880	51	83.5	1880	2.42	0	0
14.5	6000	51	83.5	1860	14.2	0	0
15.09	6080	52	83.9	1850	14.8	0	0
15.7	6160	53	83.9	1840	15.4	0	0
16.3	6240	54	84.3	1850	15.99	0	0

Group A:	118				Group B:	033	
	Engine Speed	Intake Air	Charge Pressure	Charge Pressure		Bank 1	Bank 1 Voltage
TIME		Temperature	Solenoid Valve	(actual Value)	TIME	Lambda Control	of Oxygen Sensors
STAMP	 /min	ﾰC	 %	 mbar	STAMP	 %	 V
0.01	1920	24	86.3	1320	0.28	-3.1	1.14
0.58	2000	23	86.3	1440	0.88	-4.7	1.06
1.18	2160	23	86.3	1620	1.5	-3.9	1.06
1.79	2320	23	86.3	1890	2.09	-3.9	1.02
2.39	2480	23	86.3	2180	2.69	-3.9	1.06
3	2720	24	86.3	2370	3.3	-3.1	1.04
3.61	2880	24	86.3	2380	3.9	-3.1	1.04
4.21	3080	24	86.3	2400	4.52	-3.1	1.04
4.82	3320	26	86.3	2350	5.11	-2.3	1
5.42	3520	27	85.5	2370	5.72	-2.3	0.92
6.02	3720	30	85.9	2350	6.31	-3.1	0.9
6.64	3920	31	85.9	2350	6.94	-4.7	0.94
7.22	4120	33	85.5	2360	7.53	-3.9	0.94
7.84	4320	35	85.9	2330	8.14	-3.9	0.78
8.43	4480	37	85.5	2270	8.74	-4.7	0.78
9.03	4680	39	85.5	2220	9.34	-3.9	0.76
9.64	4880	40	84.7	2160	9.95	-3.9	0.78
10.25	5040	42	84.3	2100	10.57	-2.3	0.66
10.94	5200	45	84.3	2050	11.24	-3.9	0.6
11.57	5320	47	83.9	2010	11.86	-4.7	0.66
12.16	5480	48	83.9	1990	12.45	-4.7	0.68
12.75	5600	50	83.5	1940	13.06	-3.9	0.64
13.37	5720	51	84.3	1910	13.69	-4.7	0.64
13.97	5840	51	84.3	1890	14.28	-3.9	0.68
14.56	5920	53	83.9	1900	14.87	-3.9	0.78
15.18	6040	54	84.3	1860	15.49	0	0.08

 

[m0rk]

way too much timing pull

how are the plugs? recently replaced?