Thinking of selling up my GTO for a Cupra, advice needed :)

[RobsonGTO]

After having my GTO for 3 years ive been thinking of selling her for a Seat Leon 1.8 Cupra Turbo. Reason being that:-

The fuel consumption on it is silly now - but then dunno what a 1.8 turbo is like?

Need more space for other people to be able to take around inc my nephew as a booster seat dont fit in the rear bucket seats.

Doing work on a 16 year old car is getting painful with all the stiff bolts. ive cut, wacked and bleed so many times ive lost count lol.

Plus i need something my gf can drive that doesnt require her to be 25+ to get a decent quote on.

So what are the performace and MPG i can look to be getting out of one of these? or would i be safer to keep my GTO and get a 1.4 leon for the missus to drive and take the kids about?

 

[RobM]

Which 1.8T are you looking at? The Cupra (later known as FR) or the Cupra R?

The Cupra should average 32MPG. The Cupra R should average 28-30MPG. Obviously the harder you drive the lower this gets, and visa-versa.

Performance is good from both. Obviously not in GTO territory but still damn good. Think a touch faster than a Focus RS, Civic Type-R, Focus ST etc.
BUT... and this is the good bit... a simple remap will see a Cupra R get to around 260+bhp and nearly 300lb/ft torque!

 

[RobsonGTO]

Im not to sure as only just started the research into these cars, basically abit like the one in your avatar, a nice yellow 1.8 v20 i think it is? never had a turbo so looking for abit of a fun hatchback.

On Autotrader ive seen some 2001 models going for 4-5k which is prob my budget range.

I got hooked on the seat leon when i was driving on the motorway...i took it steady then one came up behind me fast so i thought ok ill have a play...and then it killed me! took it up to 140 and then backed off, totally impressed and gave the guy a thumbs up...didnt know how tuneable these cars was.

Mine is only a non-turbo, have been tempted by the twin turbos but they can get into single figures on the mpg which means more £££

 

[RobM]

The one in my avatar is a Cupra R. These are 210 or 225bhp as standard depending on age. They start at £8k for a higher mileage very early example.

The ones you will have seen for £4-5k will be early Cupras. These are indeed a 1.8 20v Turbo and produce 180bhp. A remap will take you to 210bhp and similar figures in torque.

Bear in mind the Cupra had a bit of a facelift after a few years and got nicer wheels and body styling. Early ones had multispoke wheels and black bits on the bumpers, but the same running gear and engine.

If you'r GTO is the non-turbo version, I wouldn't be surprised to see a standard LCR or a remapped Cupra stick right to your tail. A remapped LCR will wave goodbye to it

 

[Pavalova]

Having owned 3 Gto's (a 1991,1993 and most recently a 1997) I would recommend buying an LC....or an LCR if its in your price range. Thats exactly what I have just done, you wont regret it. A standard 225bhp LCR will beat a non turbo GTO anyday of the week, and a remapped one will eat a twin turbo. These cars are like 15yo, and they arent puting out the horsepower they once used to.

Feel free to message me buddy if i can be of help more.

Mike.

 

[RobsonGTO]

Thanks guys, some good info there

I think it will have to be the 4-5k range LC for me, i cant see my GTO selling for anything more than 2-3k these days, its a shame really as i always wanted this car since i was 16, now its worth next to nothing but thats how it goes these days.

3 GTOs mike! wow, did you used to be on the GTO forums at all? But i agree with the age of the car, over the years it will have lost a few horses, but any work i do on them it usually involves using a hot torch to prize the nuts apart .

I took a 1.4 leon for a spin the other day and it was a nice car loads of room, but when i got back in my GTO i knew i would miss the power, on the other hand i need to take my partner into consideration as she will be passing soon. i put a quote in for a 1.8 LC and it wasnt too bad, considering i have 3 convictions on my licence.

 

[bentaw]

I am not sure how many people manage get 28-30mpg out of the cupra r unless it is all motorway miles as i only manage 25mpg but i still say that is good considering i have stage 2 and an exhaust that produces sex wee everytime i plant my foot

 

[the_prophet]

think my average around town is 23/24mpg. thats a 225.

 

[Pavalova]

Yep, 3 GTO's 2 MK1 and 1 MK3 (Hoop Spoiler), all passion red. One thing that used to constantly remind me of the cars age was the red paint fade if the car wasnt waxed within a week.....used to annoy me especially over winter where it wasnt alsways possible to wax it weekly, used to leave me with pinky plastic parts in some places. I used to be on a few of the forums, most notably gtouk.
Seriously fella, ive owned from all Vag groups and the Leon takes alot to beat.....get a new car of any brand and you wont look back....I dont care who you are, the age of a car will soon wear you down.

I really think a LC would be a great choice.....but if you can, get the LCR and never look back chum!

Agree with the peoples fuel findings....25mpg around town tops if you drive normally...im quite the pedal pusher and prolly get 21mpg around town.

 

[Dennis]

I was looking at a 3000GT, a Lancer Evo and an Elise about 5 years ago, I ruled the 3000GT out due o handling worries and the weight meaning it is not that quick.

Our lass runs a LCR daily and loves it but also only get very low 20's to the gallon.

Decent boot, nice ageless looks (almost ageless), prity quick and easy to drive (Type R was hard work to ge the best out of it, hitting rev limiter etc.)

You could do a lot worse.

Having said that why not go for both and put the GTO on a collectors policy

 

[RobM]

My driving varies... as does my mood when I'm driving. When I'm on the motorway, or dual carriageways or just in the mood to plod along I'll easily get 28-30MPG. The most I've got is 34MPG on a good run.

The rest of the time my driving is a mix of motorway, city driving and A and B road bashing and believe me, I'm always in a hurry This sort of driving gets me a steady average of 26-27MPG.

Then if I drive everywhere like my hair is on fire... well... low 20's is about it really.

 

[sargey]

ill add my 2 cents as i have an LC. Sweet lil car to be fair, quite pokey and good fun
get about 29-30mpg driving to the Mrs and back most days which is B roads with the odd push hard of the pedal. Sounds nice too with a new dump valve and air filter. Plenty of room, nice seats.
Its not AS nice as the LCR obviously but for the price its good value for money IMO. Unless you want to go VW and get a GTi turbo but they are slower

 

[allh2k]

Hello

From what ive read i would never go for a small petrol might as well get a derv...

 

[RobM]

Hello

From what ive read i would never go for a small petrol might as well get a derv...

Would you like to share with class what you have read that makes you think that then?

 

[Pabs]

I do a lot of motorway miles - probably about 30k a year, and I'm averaging 30-33mpg in my Leon Cupra, 1.8 20VT, which is modified to about 220bhp.

 

[allh2k]

Well smaller petrol engines will do about 40 mpg? and have a insurance group of about 5 or 6 ? yeah dervs cost more initially but aren’t they more reliable do more mpg and have a low insurance group compare to the petrol equivalent(speed!)?

Well this is the assumption I came to and purchased a derv....

 

[Pabs]

each to their own, but derv's need more regular servicing, cost of the fuel is now 2 or 3p more than petrol (its 2p more than super unleaded at my local garage)

But u have a valid point about insurance - but they are cheaper because they don't go as fast (or at least in the 0-60)

So the savings are not as good as they may appear...

 

[RobM]

Well smaller petrol engines will do about 40 mpg? and have a insurance group of about 5 or 6 ? yeah dervs cost more initially but aren’t they more reliable do more mpg and have a low insurance group compare to the petrol equivalent(speed!)?

Well this is the assumption I came to and purchased a derv....

That's one hell of an assumption.

Yes a derv will do much more MPG, and if that's the most important thing to you then derv is really the only option. But that's not everybodys main concern. I, for instance, am more interested in performance and the way a car drives and for me, derv simply doesn't cut it.

As Pabs says, servicing and fuel prices are more expensive for derv. And insurance is cheaper for a reason.. they are slower. Once you start modifying it to make it as quick as the higher performance petrol versions, your insurance will jump up to a similar level as a petrol engined version. I bet the difference in insurance between a modified Cupra diesel and a standard LCR is minimal.
Also a derv is no more reliable than a petrol engine, so forget that one too.

But as I said, if fuel economy is the most important issue to you then high powered petrol engines are simply not an option.

 

[slick]

That's one hell of an assumption.

Yes a derv will do much more MPG, and if that's the most important thing to you then derv is really the only option. But that's not everybodys main concern. I, for instance, am more interested in performance and the way a car drives and for me, derv simply doesn't cut it.

As Pabs says, servicing and fuel prices are more expensive for derv. And insurance is cheaper for a reason.. they are slower. Once you start modifying it to make it as quick as the higher performance petrol versions, your insurance will jump up to a similar level as a petrol engined version. I bet the difference in insurance between a modified Cupra diesel and a standard LCR is minimal.
Also a derv is no more reliable than a petrol engine, so forget that one too.

But as I said, if fuel economy is the most important issue to you then high powered petrol engines are simply not an option.

Rob and Pabs.. liek to say my imput on that...

Servicing costs more from Seat for a Derv than a petrol yes but you pay more on tax than i do.... so that equals out, plus the fact i dont go to dealship to service it, cheaper from VAG specialists...

As for insurance unfortunately Rob your wrong the Derv is still cheaper even thou i have modifed it to the hills... insurance on Leon TDi i have now £710 all like for like mod cover and 200+bhp push out, if i changed to a Cupra R... the insurance jumps to over £1400 fully comp standard, remap adds £200 odd then mods visual one will add no further cost... so basically, its still cheaper to have a derv.. and i have already preannoced to the insurance company of future 260bhp turbo and injector work on the TDi, insurance premiem raise of £210... so same power as Cupra R half the price still, and well i wont comment on how fast my rear end will dissappear from a Cupra R on a rolling start with that much torque and bhp....

But back to the point in hand,..... GTO to a LCR definately.. LC is ok, but LCR is the one you want to go for... such a understated underdog car on the road..

Edit: as for the 0-60, have a look at Allards Golf TDI, and tell me you could beat that on the road... think you under estimate TDi's 0-60 nowdays... they are getting better every year!

 

[RobM]

As for insurance unfortunately Rob your wrong the Derv is still cheaper even thou i have modifed it to the hills... insurance on Leon TDi i have now £710 all like for like mod cover and 200+bhp push out, if i changed to a Cupra R... the insurance jumps to over £1400 fully comp standard, remap adds £200 odd then mods visual one will add no further cost... so basically, its still cheaper to have a derv.. and i have already preannoced to the insurance company of future 260bhp turbo and injector work on the TDi, insurance premiem raise of £210... so same power as Cupra R half the price still, and well i wont comment on how fast my rear end will dissappear from a Cupra R on a rolling start with that much torque and bhp....ou under estimate TDi's 0-60 nowdays... they are getting better every year!

The one thing that screams out from all that... is you really need to change insurance companies! I don't know your age or postcode so can't compare my insurance to you, but any company that charges £200 to cover a remap is to be avoided IMO.

My insurance is £750 and I'm 23 with a ban on my licence. A remap will cost me.... £25 admin fee. That's it.
When I had my Celica with the same insurance company, body work and a nitrous install (75bhp shot) would cost an extra £95. So it seems as though your Derv is costing a heck of a lot to insure?

As for performance, you're comparing a modified car to a standard car when you say:

and well i wont comment on how fast my rear end will dissappear from a Cupra R on a rolling start with that much torque and bhp....

Do you think that would still be the case if I spent the same amount of money modifying my LCR? If I applied similar mod's to my LCR as you have to your Cupra TDi then it would be me showing you a clean pair of heels. You simply can't compare heavily modified to standard.

You mention tax... how much do you pay per-year? It's £190 I think for the LCR, give or take a pound or two. The diesel would have to be seriously cheaper to cover the differences in servicing.

I'm lucky in that I only do around 13-15k per year so there is little to be gained from going Derv. If I did more mileage, I'd have no option to change to Derv.