Clutch slip on remapped PD150's.

[Triple D]

i think there is 2 part numbers on the system for the clutches , theres the sachs made one that is in from factory and another one which is available as a part also which i believe is cheaper ( less durable maybe) i think its boge-unsure

no steven, boge dont make clutches, just shocks, sachs will be OE on the clutch, or possibly LUK.

The reason you guys all have slip is because, a clutch is designed to tollerate with iirc, an extra 1/3rd of the origonal power, and that is its maximum, any more and thats it, the clutch will slip without question.

 

[UncleFester]

It is LUK or Sachs that can be fitted.

I believe the problem ( according to them over the pond ) is that the current clutch system was designed for non PD diesels - you see the problem ......

 

[Triple D]

Just also read through all these people's comments, and i find it quite amuzing tbh, people saying its the parts that are defective as they cant cope.

When a car is developed, they go to a clutch manufacturer like SACHS, and tell them the specs of the engines, they then design the clutch to there specifications, and also allow a slightly bit tolerance in the components on the off chance the engine produces more power.

Now when you guys up the power, from say 130 bhp to 170-180 or from 150 bhp to circa 200 bhp, i find it highly amuzing when you then complain that you have got clutch slip. As t spark stated, it depends on how you drive, if you drive around the peak torque and only half throttle it till say 2.5k rpm then you shouldnt have too many problems i wouldnt think. Now tuners like revo, there map for a tdi is very spikey, and thus casuing clutch slip from low down the revs.

If your gonna up the power on a car, oe parts will fail, its a known fact, which is why people like slick and myself have chosen to do the sensible thing and replaced the clutch for an uprated one.I do have the added advantage of getting these clutches at 1/3 the cost you buy them for though as i work for SACHS. I am currently trying to sort out a price for scn members on an uprated Clucth kit, and a normal oe DMF if that is needed.

 

[skullmunki]

will be getting my tdi after christmas (looking forward to that more than getting my Wii!), and am looking to remap pretty much straight away, and the issue of clutch slip is hampering my thinking a bit! Think I have looked into pretty much all the remap options, and have narrowed it down to 4 choices;

1. Revo would be the easiest, as ADS in preston is only 10 minutes down the road. Have slight worries (from trawling the forums) that the phase 1 Revo maps can produce big torque spikes?

2. Awesome are 30 mins away and do the Forge (ipro) map, but cant really find much info on people that have it, any info would be appreciated.

3. Jabbasport maps come highly regarded and i like the fact that they have a customisable RR remap. Problem is that its 3.5 hours away.

4. Bellsautos. An hour and a half away, and the custom map provided sounds right down my street. Plus its the cheapest.

5. JBS. The customcode remap supposedly has smoother power delivery. These guys are also about 1.5 drive away.

I'm by no way an expert, but I can understand that increasing both the bhp and torque will put standard components under stresses they may not have been designed for, so clutch slip is a gamble, but having less torque lower down (with smoother delivery) the rev range can help.

I was thinking of doing the clutch early doors, but then i thought why spend £750+ notes if i dont have to? (well, for a while, anyway).

But knowing my luck, i could have the smoothest, silkiest power delivery possible and the clutch would slip more than a geriatric in a banana skin factory!

 

[UncleFester]

The thing is, even people with 'stock' cars are getting this and the clutch slip isn't always down to just the friction disc and pressure plate, a faulty DMF can also cause it. Driving around with a damaged DMF and assuming it is simply clutch slip is not a game i'd want to play for any length of time.

I fully expect to replace a clutch if i rag the nuts out of it, but this is the first car to date i've ever had to replace a flywheel on - never mind the fact it has only done 33k miles.

My view after a good deal of reading around is that the DMF itself is a weak part in the link and is prone to failure because it was never designed to do what it is being asked to do.

When you get these prices sorted i'll be taking a DMF off you, the petrol guys achilles heel is coil packs, looks like the derv brigade can count the DMF as theirs

Just for the record, i'm no engineer .... my views are purely personal based on a fair bit of reading around various VAG forums.

 

[wrc]

my car is a leon cupra tdi 150
18,000 miles / 04 reg
remapped at 10,000 mls
superchips remap
no slip at all.

 

[adam_tdi]

mine is p-tourqe map, no slip as such but i do get a judder if i load it at low rpm

 

[Triple D]

The thing is, even people with 'stock' cars are getting this and the clutch slip isn't always down to just the friction disc and pressure plate, a faulty DMF can also cause it. Driving around with a damaged DMF and assuming it is simply clutch slip is not a game i'd want to play for any length of time.

I fully expect to replace a clutch if i rag the nuts out of it, but this is the first car to date i've ever had to replace a flywheel on - never mind the fact it has only done 33k miles.

My view after a good deal of reading around is that the DMF itself is a weak part in the link and is prone to failure because it was never designed to do what it is being asked to do.

When you get these prices sorted i'll be taking a DMF off you, the petrol guys achilles heel is coil packs, looks like the derv brigade can count the DMF as theirs

Just for the record, i'm no engineer .... my views are purely personal based on a fair bit of reading around various VAG forums.

The dmf is most probably a sachs one aswell, and in the aftermarket warranty department that i work in, we have had all of 3, maybe 4 dmf back this year, these do not fail due to a manufacturing defect, or problem. They think they have failed, so we send them back to germany for futher testing as we dont have the correct tooling to check these here in the uk, when they go to germany they open them up, to inspect the inside. Inside them, there is a mass of springs, lots of grease, and a few pieces of plastic.

If people think they have too much play in them, then they are most probably wrong, yes, as all parts wear, they do become to have a slight amount of play in them, but when tested and opened, the results say differently.

It is advisable, if a car has done over 60k miles and your gonna replace the clutch to replace the DMF aswell, as either the clutch, or the DMF will destroy itself very quickly. The only way you can reduce a DMF's life is if its been abused, or worked very hard. I think mine does work very hard in mine, but it doesnt bother me, because at £90 a go, its not a great deal of money, compared to a dealer or other place.

 

[UncleFester]

The dmf is most probably a sachs one aswell, and in the aftermarket warranty department that i work in, we have had all of 3, maybe 4 dmf back this year, these do not fail due to a manufacturing defect, or problem. They think they have failed, so we send them back to germany for futher testing as we dont have the correct tooling to check these here in the uk, when they go to germany they open them up, to inspect the inside. Inside them, there is a mass of springs, lots of grease, and a few pieces of plastic.

If people think they have too much play in them, then they are most probably wrong, yes, as all parts wear, they do become to have a slight amount of play in them, but when tested and opened, the results say differently.

It is advisable, if a car has done over 60k miles and your gonna replace the clutch to replace the DMF aswell, as either the clutch, or the DMF will destroy itself very quickly. The only way you can reduce a DMF's life is if its been abused, or worked very hard. I think mine does work very hard in mine, but it doesnt bother me, because at £90 a go, its not a great deal of money, compared to a dealer or other place.

Mine had over 20mm of play when it was removed! It's when you're forking out £330 + vat + labour + vat that it starts to sting a bit The funny thing is, if you're selling a car as a sports car, then the car is going to get driven and probably harder than a car marketed as a 'family' hatch

Customer: My DMF has died at 33k miles.
Garage: Sorry sir/madam, unfortunately because you were driving the sports car we sold you like a sports car we're not going to change that part under warranty as you broke it by driving your car like a sports car.

I just find it mildly amusing despite the repair bill

 

[muddyboots]

It's a PD130, but...

92k miles, no remap, no slip
100k miles, Upsolute remap, slippetty-slip
110k miles, tweaked Upsolute remap, slip cured.

 

[beefy]

<3 muddyboots lol

 

[ChrisUK]

PD150 FR Leon

Bell Auto's map

2005

Slips when really booting it, not too bad if I ease the power in rather than just whacking down the accelerator.

Pete from Bell Auto's is a great guy, and offered to de-tune the peak torque to avoid any slip at all until I get an uprated clutch, then put it back again after (all FOC). Well recommended !!!

 

[AndyVTR]

Thing is who is is just going to get an uprated clutch or friction plate on it's own then put it back together to take apart later if you need a new flywheel?

 

[Triple D]

Well hows about you all treat yourself to a late xmas pressie next year then when i get the prices sorted out on these uprated clutches and DMF's

 

[AndyVTR]

No, i went for the direct replacement Sachs clutch... kept the DMF...

I presume that's the uprated one then? I bet SEAT would quote £750 for sticking another OEM one in.

How much is just an uprated friction plate?

 

[AndyVTR]

Well hows about you all treat yourself to a late xmas pressie next year then when i get the prices sorted out on these uprated clutches and DMF's

Are you quoting supply only amuzed one?

 

[Triple D]

Are you quoting supply only amuzed one?

Yes just supplying it im afraid, i dont have the expertise to go ahead and fit it im afraid

 

[AndyVTR]

I just want to see options and prices including fitting. I'll just throw money at the thing until it stops making me want to burn it.

 

[InfernalBadger]

Any idea how long it would take to fit? (at a seat/vw specialist)

 

[AndyVTR]

SEAT quoted me 6hrs yesterday. So half it?