CUPRA Born is being offered with a UK-first three-month return option

Syphon said:

What do you think? Will you be giving this a go?

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No.

Desperate measures, as the EV bubble has well and truly burst. Unreliability with charging infrastructure, issues plaguing vehicles, poor range and massive depreciation who would want to invest in an EV. I went for a Plug-in hybrid and severely regret it, has been problem after problem since day one

Agreed, I am afraid the VAG Group need to do some work on there motors as the Jap/Chinese/Korean EV's are better equipped with tech (which people seem to want). As above there are lots of places in the country (eg not in big towns and with poorer population) where the EV does not make sense.

Added to that you can see BMW now telling the EU to cancel / delay the 2035 date when you can only buy EV but without any handouts from the Govt.

Afraid the European car manufacturing business in my view is having a hard time (just check out the reviews on the Paris Motor Show where all the major players are having issues).


and some good news for the Seat/Cupra brand https://www.reuters.com/business/au...seat-counterpart-magazine-reports-2024-09-09/

Desperation as current VAG software is utter dogsh%t…from personal experience, and many other friends and colleagues who’ve either bought or leased VAG cars…they couldn’t pay me to take a current VAG EV…sorry, I add to this, it’s not just their EV problem, it’s software and hardware…companies such as Kia, Hyundai and MG seem to have nailed it, whereas VAG are living in a world 20 years ago, and a bunch of millennials have told them that touch controls are the way to go! I love my Cupra’s old-generation simplicity, which works! The Born is just a w@nky VW ID.3 in a posh frock

I’ve always been of the opinion that VW - and the wider VAG - are quite arrogant and because of their size, IMHO they’ve considered themselves to be somewhat invincible. With this in mind, I think they‘ve taken their eye off the ball as far as competitor activity and changing customer behaviour is concerned. Additionally, with a large organisation the size of VAG, it’s difficult to react quickly to changing market conditions and customer needs; a bit like a large ocean going liner trying to change course to avoid an iceberg - and we all know what happened to the Titanic…………..

Sadly for VAG, as far as EV’s are concerned the Asian competition has caught up - I’d go as far as to say they’ve overtaken VAG and left them behind. If I was considering an EV (I’m not), it certainly wouldn’t be wearing a badge from one of the brands within the VAG stable; IMHO there are better competitor EV’s out there. And as for the software fiasco of the past 4 years; it must have cost VAG dearly - not just financially, but also in terms of reputational harm and loss of customer confidence.

VAG could also learn a thing or two from some of their competitors as far as customer service is concerned; during the last 2-3 years, I’d seen a noticeable downturn in customer service at the VW dealership I’d used for many years.

Time to explore some of the non-VAG options out there methinks……………

@SRGTD , you couldn’t have said it better!

I don’t want to trash the brand, but my Arteon Shooting Brake company car was the best (looking), but worst car I’ve ever owned…from crap software, ancient PHEV drivetrain, to those horrific capacitive-touch controls, and awful software (it had more software updates than my iPhone, and spent over a month at one point in the dealership!), VW have lost their way and deserve to go down.

VW don’t listen, don’t care and don’t know what to do in the modern world…I wish they did, but after spending the last 20 minutes on VW’s website looking at the turd that’s the new Passat, I don’t think they have a clue…let’s hope they can keep production of parts for our cars in good supply!

@Cubbington - I’ve had VW’s for 22 years so I think I can call myself brand loyal. I certainly wouldn’t want to see VW - or the wider VAG - fail but I agree, they have lost their way with their current generation of vehicles. No more VW’s for me - at least not for the foreseeable future.

Interesting article at the link below on the troubles at VW that was recently posted on the Golf GTI forum.


Apologies for going off topic . Back on topic; I won’t be taking up the offer of a Born with the three month return option.

SRGTD said:

@Cubbington - I’ve had VW’s for 22 years so I think I can call myself brand loyal. I certainly wouldn’t want to see VW - or the wider VAG - fail but I agree, they have lost their way with their current generation of vehicles. No more VW’s for me - at least not for the foreseeable future.

Interesting article at the link below on the troubles at VW that was recently posted on the Golf GTI forum.

An ‘earthquake’ at Volkswagen – and a crisis for Germany?

The company is seen as crucial not just to local but national wellbeing – and never before have its workers been threatened in their own homeland like this

www.theguardian.com

Apologies for going off topic . Back on topic; I won’t be taking up the offer of a Born with the three month return option.

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You’re right, and I need to apologise; the company doesn’t need to go down, the people at the top responsible for the situation need to be held accountable.

I went off on one a bit last night

Cheers,

Nick

What will this offer do to resale values and therefore lease cost, I can only imagine the lease company's having to think about the impact on them.

andycalvia said:

Desperate measures, as the EV bubble has well and truly burst. Unreliability with charging infrastructure, issues plaguing vehicles, poor range and massive depreciation who would want to invest in an EV. I went for a Plug-in hybrid and severely regret it, has been problem after problem since day one

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I'm not sure about bursting the EV bubble.
18% more EVs were sold in the UK in 2023 compared to 2022. And the market for BEVs and PHEVs has grown further in 2024.

Poor range? Do you mean that EVs don't have adequate range, or don't match the advertised range?
People know the estimated range before purchase. And, there are numerous online reviews of cars giving the real world performance. Yes, electric range will vary - in the same way as people don't always get the claimed mpg - especially if they have a lead foot!

My wife has had a Nissan Leaf for 2.5 years now and no issues. Lease vehicle with services included. But EV servicing is cheaper anyway.
Yes, it hasn't got much range. But we use my Cupra for longer trips. And the average daily mileage in UK is only about 18 miles!

IMHO the % growth in EV sales don’t really tell the full story.

Much of the growth in EV sales will be from business sales and company salary sacrifice arrangements because of the tax benefits. The picture is somewhat different if private sales are considered in isolation as the incentives aren’t there to encourage private buyers into an electric car.

SRGTD said:

IMHO the % growth in EV sales don’t really tell the full story.

Much of the growth in EV sales will be from business sales and company salary sacrifice arrangements because of the tax benefits. The picture is somewhat different if private sales are considered in isolation as the incentives aren’t there to encourage private buyers into an electric car.

EV demand outpaces new car market but private buyers still a concern

Registrations of new electric cars soared in July but concerns for private buyer demand remain paramount. Newly published figures from the Society of Mot

evfleetworld.co.uk

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What evidence do you have for this?
It's a moot point anyway though - because if people do use salary sacrifice it will be for either an EV, or not.
My wife got a car on salary sacrifice - and while it was for tax benefits, it was an EV because that was the cheapest option.

It's true that there are fewer incentives for private buyers, but most people in UK buy on finance.
And, many people see the benefits as being cheaper servicing costs and reducing fuel costs by thousands of pounds.

There are more cheaper EVs coming into the market, which are likely to drive demand. And over time, it's likely that the proportion of EV sales will increase, simply because ICE vehicles will be phased out.

seatgraham said:

What evidence do you have for this?

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So the article at the link I posted states private sales aren't contributing to EV sales growth - the growth is from BIK and salary sacrifice schemes. To quote from the article at the link I posted;

‘While the private share of the BEV market continues to fall – 17.2% went private buyers, compared with 20.3% last year – private BEV volumes did increase by a marginal 0.9%. Overall, BEVs accounted for 16.8% of the new car market, year to date’

And further on in the article;

‘Richard Peberdy, UK head of automotive for KPMG, added: “Benefit-in-Kind and salary sacrifice incentives for business have been the major driver of growth in EV sales and market share for some time now. The evidence increasingly suggests that accelerating private EV sales may require similar incentivisation, particularly if the Government is going to reinstate the 2030 end to new petrol and diesel vehicle sales.’

seatgraham said:

It's true that there are fewer incentives for private buyers, but most people in UK buy on finance.
And, many people see the benefits as being cheaper servicing costs and reducing fuel costs by thousands of pounds.

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I agree that there are likely to be savings realised from cheaper servicing and fuel costs. However, fuel costs are only likely to be cheaper if owners have off street parking facilities at home so they are able to take advantage of charging using off peak electricity.

There are other costs that currently are likely to be higher with EV ownership compared to ICE ownership - e.g. cost of insurance and vehicle depreciation rates. For private individuals acquiring a new EV and paying monthly under a PCP or leasing, the monthly payments will reflect that likely higher projected depreciation rate / lower residual vehicle value compared to an ICE vehicle. Those higher monthly payments and higher insurance costs may well exceed any savings realised from lower servicing and fuel costs.

seatgraham said:

There are more cheaper EVs coming into the market, which are likely to drive demand. And over time, it's likely that the proportion of EV sales will increase, simply because ICE vehicles will be phased out.

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I agree, EV technology will also continue to evolve which should make EV ownership more appealing and more affordable. However, IMHO the infrastructure to support mass EV ownership isn’t where it needs to be, and I would question whether it will be by whatever date (2030 or 2035?) new ICE’s are no longer sold.

SRGTD said:

So the article at the link I posted states private sales aren't contributing to EV sales growth - the growth is from BIK and salary sacrifice schemes. To quote from the article at the link I posted;

‘While the private share of the BEV market continues to fall – 17.2% went private buyers, compared with 20.3% last year – private BEV volumes did increase by a marginal 0.9%. Overall, BEVs accounted for 16.8% of the new car market, year to date’

And further on in the article;

‘Richard Peberdy, UK head of automotive for KPMG, added: “Benefit-in-Kind and salary sacrifice incentives for business have been the major driver of growth in EV sales and market share for some time now. The evidence increasingly suggests that accelerating private EV sales may require similar incentivisation, particularly if the Government is going to reinstate the 2030 end to new petrol and diesel vehicle sales.’


I agree that there are likely to be savings realised from cheaper servicing and fuel costs. However, fuel costs are only likely to be cheaper if owners have off street parking facilities at home so they are able to take advantage of charging using off peak electricity.

There are other costs that currently are likely to be higher with EV ownership compared to ICE ownership - e.g. cost of insurance and vehicle depreciation rates. For private individuals acquiring a new EV and paying monthly under a PCP or leasing, the monthly payments will reflect that likely higher projected depreciation rate / lower residual vehicle value compared to an ICE vehicle. Those higher monthly payments and higher insurance costs may well exceed any savings realised from lower servicing and fuel costs.


I agree, EV technology will also continue to evolve which should make EV ownership more appealing and more affordable. However, IMHO the infrastructure to support mass EV ownership isn’t where it needs to be, and I would question whether it will be by whatever date (2030 or 2035?) new ICE’s are no longer sold.

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I think we're talking about two different things:
Splitting EVs into privately bought and those bought through salary sacrifice etc, the share of private sales reduced slightly.
I was referring to the overall share of the market for EVs, which has increased year on year.

People who can use salary sacrifice may well use that scheme to benefit from the tax position. Otherwise, they may likely have chosen to buy a car privately. They won't likely do both!

My wife's EV is on a salary sacrifice scheme. She didn't go out looking for an EV. It just happened to be that an EV was the cheapest salary sacrifice option, and was available with insurance and servicing included. So, her insurance was certainly not far more - otherwise the EV cost to her would be more. Same with depreciation, the cost cannot be excessive as the overall cost was the lowest!

Some cars do depreciate more than others. Autotrader research indicates that EVs depreciate slightly more than petrol and diesel cars. But, about 90% of people finance cars. So, that would be apparent in PCP deals etc.

The EV network is improving. Indeed, there are more EV charging points than petrol pumps. Some areas of UK are better served. But, in reality, most people in UK charge their car at home most of the time. In that case, charging is cheaper than fuel costs.

Each to their own. But after 2.5 years of EV ownership my wife is sold on getting another EV. She doesn't drive high miles so range is less of an issue. As I said, the average daily mileage in UK is around 18 miles. So most people simply do not need a 500 mile range.

Lots of EVs now which are competitively priced. They are not for everyone. Hybrids or ICE will suit some motorists more. But in UK, I don't see an issue with moving to full electric (or at least non-ICE) in the next 10 years or so. Battery charging and range are improving. The infrastructure is improving. And, there are options to bring more people into the mix. Lots of options on the table for people who don't have a driveway or off-road parking, for example.

The dates for moving away from ICE may slip. And ICE might not be fully replaced by EVs. The legislation doesn't insist on EVs - just not ICE!
We have quite a few years to go.

There are batteries tested which can achieve 200 miles of range in 5 minutes, which should appease those with range anxiety. In practice, most motorists simply don't need 400 miles of range every time they leave the house. Nor do most motorists rely heavily on the national charging infrastructure. Even before we had a home charger fitted (which was included in the monthly leasing cost and still cheaper than an ICE), it wasn't that inconvenient to charge at a local EV point. Yes, one at the local supermarket was out of order. But, charge for 30 minutes while getting some exercise!

Not ready to own/lease an EV even though I'm an ideal user, got off street parking, most of the time I'm driving round town or commuting to work. But whenever I've been in an EV it's not nice. Whether it's bad software, worrying about finding a charger, if it will be free or work as advertised. Been to 350kw chargers and it's topped out at less than 100 in a car that should take 250. Range being 2/3 of advertised so 330 drops to 220 and then only have 180 usable if you stick to using 90-10%.

But, I admit I love the look of the Cupra Born especially in the dark blue..

matt_s said:

Not ready to own/lease an EV even though I'm an ideal user, got off street parking, most of the time I'm driving round town or commuting to work. But whenever I've been in an EV it's not nice. Whether it's bad software, worrying about finding a charger, if it will be free or work as advertised. Been to 350kw chargers and it's topped out at less than 100 in a car that should take 250. Range being 2/3 of advertised so 330 drops to 220 and then only have 180 usable if you stick to using 90-10%.

But, I admit I love the look of the Cupra Born especially in the dark blue..

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I’m not ready to make that leap of faith to EV ownership yet either. I also would be seen as an ideal user with off street parking and the majority of my journeys being well within an EV’s battery range.

However, as I‘m not in a position to take advantage of salary sacrifice schemes (I’m retired), and I find some of the reports of current very high depreciation rates on EV’s quite scary, I’m biding my time. I’m also mindful that battery technology is continuing to evolve, so smaller, lighter batteries with faster charging times and greater range may not be that far away.

I also don’t need a ‘large’ car; my last 2 cars were B segment cars as is my current one, and currently EV choice is more limited in the B segment than in the C segment and above. However, some interesting forthcoming B segment EV’s have certainly sparked my interest, so there will be B segment EV’s (maybe only EV’s?) on my next car wish list.

As regards range - I think the official figures are always tend to be somewhat optimistic, and as we head towards winter, fuel efficiency reduces during the colder months not just for EV’s but for ICE and hybrid vehicles too.

I do question whether an EV only strategy for future car production is the best way forward though (IMHO never a good idea to put all your eggs into one basket); synthetic e-fuels made from renewable sources may be a viable alternative, provided they could be mass produced in sufficient volume. My understanding is that they could also be used in (most?) existing ICE cars so would make a worthwhile contribution towards achieving net zero.

SRGTD said:

I’m not ready to make that leap of faith to EV ownership yet either. I also would be seen as an ideal user with off street parking and the majority of my journeys being well within an EV’s battery range.

However, as I‘m not in a position to take advantage of salary sacrifice schemes (I’m retired), and I find some of the reports of current very high depreciation rates on EV’s quite scary, I’m biding my time. I’m also mindful that battery technology is continuing to evolve, so smaller, lighter batteries with faster charging times and greater range may not be that far away.

I also don’t need a ‘large’ car; my last 2 cars were B segment cars as is my current one, and currently EV choice is more limited in the B segment than in the C segment and above. However, some interesting forthcoming B segment EV’s have certainly sparked my interest, so there will be B segment EV’s (maybe only EV’s?) on my next car wish list.

As regards range - I think the official figures are always tend to be somewhat optimistic, and as we head towards winter, fuel efficiency reduces during the colder months not just for EV’s but for ICE and hybrid vehicles too.

I do question whether an EV only strategy for future car production is the best way forward though (IMHO never a good idea to put all your eggs into one basket); synthetic e-fuels made from renewable sources may be a viable alternative, provided they could be mass produced in sufficient volume. My understanding is that they could also be used in (most?) existing ICE cars so would make a worthwhile contribution towards achieving net zero.

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It looks like the range of EV models available will improve. As you mention, more options are coming to the market.
I would be fine for using an EV most of the time (even though I tend to fill up before my petrol tank is anywhere near empty!).
It would just be longer holiday trips, where the extra range would be useful. Even then, the available range on current models - with perhaps a stop to get more juice - would cover 90% of our trips.

There are EV range calculators online - showing the effect of heating or AC.
The average daily travel in UK is only around 18 miles. Your mileage may vary.

Honestly don't know where most of the people in this thread are getting their info from.

The Korean EVs have been better than VAG for a long time but VAG have now caught up and overtaken them in a lot of respects.

As of now, you'd be hard pressed to find a better small family EV than the Born. I did a lot of research comparing which to get and went with the Born VZ in the end. Not sure what software people are referring to either the battery management system or information system? But both are fine.

Range is excellent. The ID3 platform is very efficient and you can get 4 miles per kWh fairly easily which is 316 miles with 79kWh. That costs me £5.53 to charge. A petrol car doing 40 mpg costs roughly £45 in petrol to do the same.

Servicing is basically plugging in a computer and checking it's all ok so costs nothing.

Public charging on a long journey is a breeze. Find a fast charger and by the time you've had a coffee you're full again. It's not cheap (almost as expensive as petrol).